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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 5423152" data-attributes="member: 4348">And a LOT of the OD&D, 1e, and 2e players that stuck with it would like the SAME respect from the D20/3.X die hards...but that never happened.Still hasn't.Perhaps turn around is fair play.Overall, it would be great if everyone could respect everyone else's game of choice, but they don't.I think the worst offenders actually were the 3.X players originally.  Not a majority, or even most of them, but some particularly hard nosed die hards who constantly derided older editions of the game as inferior.I think some of the older players may not have really preferred 4e either, but jumped on the bandwagon when 4e initially came out to poke the hot stick from the fire right back at those tormenters who suddenly had their idolatry of D20 shoved from under them and had the same experience as some of the older gamers when 3e came out.However, I think that some of those that have switched to Pathfinder, or are the really hard nosed die hards of D20 have only aggravated the situation over the years.  I feel it could have died out.  The D20 hardnosed die hards (the small but LOUD minority I've talked about) can't let dead dogs lie.  They take every opportunity to praise their D20 game and put down everything else.That automatically puts people on the defensive.  They're continued arguments about "improvements" over past editions...but that 4e destroyed D&D simply puts fuel on the fire with people firing back about how 4e is actually an improvement and how 3e was so terribly unbalanced.I actually like 3.5 a lot.  I think it's a better game ever since the migration of players went to Pathfinder, including a majority of this small minority of die hards who complain loudly and insult everything but their chosen messiah of a game.  Now the 3.5 players don't seem to have to deal with these people.I think pathfinder is a good system as well in all likelihood.  I asked about it a little while ago and even gave it a try.  However, two people of the group simply could NOT let me be.  They'd deride the fact that I had no problem with 4e or AD&D constantly...and spout all sorts of nonsense about how superior Pathfinder and D20 games were.  Instead of taking a baseball bat to their heads, I left the group and have never gone back.  I'll probably NEVER play Pathfinder again.  It was a group of around 5 people...so they were absolutely the minority...but made life so painful to game around them...I don't want to put up with it.In otherwords, it's not the game system I have a problem with, it's the people that play it.I've never had a problem like that with others for any other game system...maybe I'm just blessed.Where was a I going with this...got sidetracked with just how disgusted I got with those two guys...It was so disgusting it actually turned me off of what probably was a good game system overall.Ah, that's right...I think a LOT of this was actually a small minority of people, specifically a minority that plays some D20 type games.  I'm not certain what attracts this mindset to that type of game, but it's the only place I've ever actually seen it in public...and seen a reflection of it on the internet.I remember wargames and the change (I still call myself a wargamer and boardgamer overall, and typically will not actually admit to being part of an RPG group amongst them unless they play RPGs as well), but I NEVER SAW ANYTHING even close to the insults and catcalls, the derision and fury I've seen the edition wars of late.  Much of that was probably if many of these items were stated to one's face, it would have ended up in a fist fight.  People tend to be more polite when face to face.I don't really recall any such fury over the 1e to 2e change.  Most seemed to be take it or leave it.  Some were very angry, but again, nothing like these edition wars of late.  Much of it could have been TSR's official stance was a grandfather clause which stated that anything in 1e could be used with 2e via grandfather clauses when 2e came out.  I think there was a LOT of those who used 1e intermixed with 2e.  Others simply ignored 2e.  Some hated on 2e...but again, nothing like what I've seen when 3e came out.When 3e came out it was like holy fire from the sky with wars concerning the differences, whether it was or was not D&D, whether it was inspired by Diablo or not (I actually feel it was inspired by the Diablo games as much as 4e was inspired by MMORPG's) and a whole slew of forum wars about them.  Things we'd never say to each other face to face went on, and insults abounded about both editions.I've never seen anything that completely embattled about an edition before or since.  Even these latests 3e to 4e wars seem tame in comparison to just how much and how far reaching these arguments went.  Forums would simply be full from top to bottom with these arguments.There was unhappiness with 3e to 3.5, but once again, the editions wars of AD&D/D&D to 3.X were still there and probably were just as disruptive as the 3e to 3.5 arguments.3e to 4e was big, and still is, but still nothing like when 3e came out.  I actually think it may die out if some of the minority of die hards could let it die out.I know I was shocked when 4e was announced.  Part of me was angry, and I saw WotC as the new T$R (the $ is on purpose...symbolizing what some saw them representative of), perhaps as the new WotC$.  For a while I went back and forth between whether to really simply drop anything and everything WotC from there on out, or stick around and see what happened with 4e.  I stuck around, especially when I saw those making the loudest noise typically were those who had insulted every edition prior to 3.X previously anyways...and saw the hypocrisy of their actions.  I really didn't want to be a part of that...and for a while there it didn't seem like there was any middle ground.Since then I've grown to like 4e in many ways.  I feel it gets rather bloated with all the powers and such at later levels, but it is itself a fine game system.  For the future, ideas for 5e are already in development.  Whether it will be called 5e or not...remains to be seen.  Perhaps a new game system called AD&D will come out again...with a separate team working on revising 4e with ideas of the collectible cards and other elements from Gamma world being worked on.   Whatever it is, I expect the new status quo will be yet another big edition war, with the usual culprits leading it...probably offended because it's not a D20 system recap.I still play boardgames and wargames.  The groups are still around.  A new edition is not going to change that.  I still play AD&D with those I can find...a new game system isn't going to change that.  I still play 3.5, and with those that I enjoy their company in.  I don't know of a group that I will play PF with currently...may never be able to unless I can be assured to avoid a small but hostile group that seems to play that game (though a majority of them I'm certain are great people to be around...I know a group of people who Play Rolemaster and are excellent people...and also play pathfinder...but with that group are some undesireables occasionally).  I play 4e...and if a 5e comes out I'll probably give it a whirl.This is a LOT longer than I intended to be originally, probably should have made it a blog or it's own topic...especially since all I wanted to say was that I don't recall edition wars being this hot or bad prior to the internet or prior to 3e coming out.  Maybe I was disillusioned with youth and simply didn't see it.  I do see those promoting these edition wars and continually bringing them up to attack every game system as a small minority however...and not representative of the gaming community as a whole.</blockquote>

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