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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5428900" data-attributes="member: 65637">I don't buy this idea that 4e characters of one class are all the same.  If anything, they're far more distinct then they've ever been.What's the difference between Bob the Fighting Man and Joe the Fighting Man?  Nothing!  Nothing at all!  If they are the same level then there is nothing differentiating between the two.Oh wait, Bob rolled 4 HP and Joe rolled 2.  Character development!Meanwhile, Bob the 4e warrior is a classic sword and shield fighter with several defensive maneuvers and a wide array of abilities to push enemies back away.  Joe the 4e warrior is a brawler and doesn't use a weapon at all - he walks up to the enemy and grabs them, beating the tar out of them face to face.  Sue the 4e warrior - who isn't penalized due to hilariously terrible misogyny built into the system this time - uses a polearm, hitting the enemy from reach, dragging the enemy away - or towards! - where she thinks best.But it's not just mechanical.  It effects how you play.A fight breaks out!  Joe and Bob in 1e are...well, they act the same.  They don't really have any different tactics.  Joe has a shield so I guess his AC is higher.Meanwhile, Bob in 4e stands in front of his party, taking the hits from the monsters and keeping his friends and allies safe.  Sue acts with cold precision, dividing the baddies and maneuvering them right into the open blades of the others.  Joe...Joe is a brawler.  He just finds the biggest, baddest son of a gun, charges it, and tries to throw it into a headlock.See, the farther back you go, the fewer choices there are.  Just from the choices of weapon and powers alone - not even going into skills or backgrounds! - the three fighters are all characterized differently.  Bob is upfront and selfless, taking the hits of others, wanting to defend the others more then anything else.  Sue is practical and tactical, dividing and conquering.  Bob has a wild gleam in his eye and will punch anyone in the face who challenges him.1e didn't let you make a viking or a pirate or a knight or a good ol' farm boy.  It let you make a fighting man who had high hit die and a better to hit table.  That's it.  That's all the game gave you.  Nothing more.  Now, you could still make a viking or a pirate or a knight or a farm boy, but it was entirely on what you brought to the game.  4e doesn't kill that.  You can still make a viking or a pirate or a good ol' farm boy.  The only difference is, now you can actually make it in the game on top of acting like one.The difference in early D&D between Joe the viking and Bob the knight is that Joe called himself a viking and bob called himself a knight.  In 4e, Bob stands before the foe and delivers his challenge valiantly, while Joe throws himself uncaringly at the enemy to rip off some heads, and it's represented.</blockquote>

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