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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5434526" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think comparison to other fairly well-known RPGs can help understand elements of a game's design.People say "4e kills creativity because its attack spells don't mention non-combat uses". Well neither did Rolemaster's attack spells (RM was one of the biggest selling non-D&D RPGs in the 80s and early 90s). But no one ever thought RM killed anyone's creativity. So I find the claim about 4e suspect also.People say "4e kills roleplaying because it separates ingame causation from metagame/rules causation". Well, HeroQuest does the same thing. And HeroQuest is generally regarded as a premier vehicle for roleplaying. So I find the claim about 4e pretty suspect.People say "Skill challenges kill roleplaying because they put a structure on what should be done freeform". Well, Burning Wheel had Duels of Wits before 4e had skill challenges. And no one seriously suggets that Burning Wheel kills roleplaying. So I doubt that 4e skill challenges do either.I think there are legitimate criticisms to be made of 4e's design. LostSoul, for example, makes some (namely, certain features of the rules make it very easy for players to disengage from the fiction). I also think that it is obviously a design that does not cater to all tastes. Nor does 3E. Or Rolemaster. Or HeroQuest. What frustrates me is people whose tastes in RPGing differ equating a difference of tastes to "killing roleplaying". I personally don't want to play Classic Traveller. Outside of the character generation system I find the game pretty tedious. I'm not really into sci-fi RPGing at all, I must confess, and Traveller's unrelentingly simulationist mechanics get me down. But it would never even occur to me to suggest that Classic Traveller kills roleplaying.So the notion that 4e kills roleplaying and creativity because it's all about combat and dice rolling! Just not true. Not true of RM. Not true of HQ. Not true of BW. Not true of 4e.(And that's not even taking into account that in this very thread I've posted lists of 4e spells, and comparisons of 4e spell lists to Basic D&D spell lists, that show that 4e incorporates at least comparable amounts of non-combat magical abilities into the game.)</blockquote>

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