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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shadzar" data-source="post: 5447195" data-attributes="member: 6667746">No it isn't. You initially brought up OA and the DSG and WSG, but lets lookWSG says the use of NWPs are based on DSG....DSG says it expanded on the OA use of NWPs.Right now you are in 2 splatbooks, hardcover but splat non the less. Both of these are AD&D1 books.Now OA was also a splatbook, pretty much its own campaign setting.So then all of AD&D has 3 moons per planet that guide the use of magic and change it based on the alignment of the caster?We might as well be saying this. The fact you have to reach out to extremities to get this doesn't make it true of the whole.Did NWPs exist in AD&D1? Yes obviously, but the problem is they were such corner cases as they didn't exist until 6 years AFTER AD&D came out.The place where NWPs became common, and still optional, was AD&D2 where they became a part of the PHB.This statement from you isn't entirely true in regards to having to to give up the combat aspect for a non-combat aspect. It just didn't exist for the most part in AD&D1 unless you used one of those special 3 splatbooks.AD&D2 however is where it was widely used if optioned. Therein then is where best to talk about NWPs "in older editions", rather than talking about them in a special case book like a campaign setting specific one.Also not so good to say it occured in "AD&D" as AD&D is not one but 4 games, excluding the mountain of settings, depending on if using UA to make a 1.5, and if using a Player's Options game to make a 2.5.So AD&D didn't do that, OA did, as you initially said.AD&D2, however, that presented them formally as part of the whole, differed and you did NOT risk a loss of weapon for nonweapon. You couldn't as the NWP system as well the Secondary Skills system was optional.So as was said the independent systems of AD&D gave the more flexible choices BECAUSE they were independent so that noncombat choices weren't mixed with combat ones, but of two different systems and focuses.Rather than comparing feats to NWP where they came from, maybe comparing them to feats in 3rd would be best, but then you might again have to look back to AD&D2 where NWP became a actually sub-system the rules accounted for rather than an add-on system the rules did not account for.But you are right about the cross-over of feats not being new, but that is because 3rd edition that first saw feat did the same thing, did it not?</blockquote>

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