Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8204466" data-attributes="member: 6778210">That's an interesting idea, though I think it's "failure" was largely being a new game at all. Pathfinder was created for people to keep using 3.X and getting content for it; lots of people had big libraries that they still wanted to be able to use, and that was clearly not easy with 4E. Those people still exist today, and that's part of the reason why PF1's base just doesn't switch over: they never were going to. They were attached to PF1 because it was based on an older system. If they stuck through 5E without taking a new system, what makes you think that any system that was notably different from 3.X would garner these people?I mean the former is demonstrably not true: it does not "trade off in Call of Cthulhu" in sales. CoC does not actually sell that much; that it takes up such a large portion of Roll20 is less a function of "selling" and more 30+ years of influence and sales. We can see this through Amazon, where the biggest CoC book varies from "nearly there" to "not close".And the 5E 3PP thing happens: it outsold even some of WOTC's own stuff. I don't think you truly understand how big D&D is compared to everything else. The second Tome of Beasts is basically riding its initial sales wave from November, and people are buying up the first Tome at the same time. I don't expect it to maintain that for long.Given the absolute size disparity between the two? I doubt it. People like to assume this because PF1 beat out 4E at certain points, but the markets aren't the same anymore: 5E exploded the size of the RPG market, particularly for itself.I think this misses that COVID hit Paizo really hard. Given how they are running their warehouse at moment, they have had stock issues for a while and have been promoting their PDFs as a way around it.The biggest two complaints here right now that "PF2 isn't a roleplaying game, it's a rollplaying game" and "PF2 should be more like 5E". One is absolutely a gatekeeping argument, the other is... bland? We've gone over this "ad nauseum", but creating a 5E clone when 5E already exists would seem to be an easier way to get you completely killed comparatively: 5E players will stick with 5E, Pathfinder players (who, again, didn't leave PF for 5E in the first place) stick with 3.X stuff, and you have nothing that draws people in.This would be more impactful if it didn't come from a guy who, when rebuked by most of the community, didn't reflect and decided that a "victory declaration" would be more appropriate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

Verification