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Is It Time for PF2 "Essentials"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8216209" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>I feel like this is just such a bad read of things. You're talking about art style, not substance, and your point is just that much with GURPS because it <em>has</em> a mold-breaking setting: Infinite Worlds. That whole setting of multiversal intrigue and adventure where you can fight world-hopping mirror fascists, supertech Nazis, modern wizards, sentient dinosaurs, a Rome that never fell, superheros, and anything else you can think of. That's totally not regular dungeon fantasy and it's honestly awesome: I <em>adore</em> that book and everything in it.</p><p></p><p>But it didn't make an impact on the market. It's a fantastic setting, but it's not what people wanted: what people wanted is the book you have a picture of.</p><p></p><p>Your mistake is saying that the market views "fantasy heartbreakers" as D&D clones when, really, <em>every RPG is viewed as a D&D clone. </em>To take a comparison from another thread, D&D is the Kleenex of the RPG industry and basically everything in the industry is defined by it. "D&D but space", "D&D but the 1980s", "D&D but cyberpunk", "D&D but _______" is how things are viewed regardless because for most people, D&D <em>is </em>RPGs.</p><p></p><p>As to Starfinder, I dunno. It doesn't interest me, but I suppose it's gotta interest some people as it seems relatively popular. Beyond Star Wars, what other setting are out there that might be doing better? Traveler? Phase Eclipse?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, anything that isn't D&D at this point is going to be niche. Pathfinder got the way it was not because it was an independent game, but because it attached itself to the previous D&D edition. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem with supporting 5E is that instantly makes having your own system worthless: why produce a system when you are supporting the most popular and profitable system out there? Why convert to your system when they can just get everything in the system they already have.</p><p></p><p>I get people wanting 5E Paizo support, but that doesn't really benefit Paizo at all if they intend to have their own system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's great, I suppose? I mean, as a dude who has gotten tired of the simplistic yet convoluted (especially when you need to do multi-classing) nature of 5E builds, the modularity of PF2 is just so damn nice. Same with monsters, where barely anything misses and it's just a hard DPS race to the end. I haven't found monsters to be completely unhittable in PF2 yet, but that's just my experience. YMMV.</p><p></p><p>But at the end, I think all these "PF2 should become more like 5E" calls always miss that we already have a 5E, and trying to become closer to that is just going to get you eaten up by 5E: the fewer differences, the fewer reasons to convert over from the biggest thing out there, while people who want differences go to something else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8216209, member: 6778210"] I feel like this is just such a bad read of things. You're talking about art style, not substance, and your point is just that much with GURPS because it [I]has[/I] a mold-breaking setting: Infinite Worlds. That whole setting of multiversal intrigue and adventure where you can fight world-hopping mirror fascists, supertech Nazis, modern wizards, sentient dinosaurs, a Rome that never fell, superheros, and anything else you can think of. That's totally not regular dungeon fantasy and it's honestly awesome: I [I]adore[/I] that book and everything in it. But it didn't make an impact on the market. It's a fantastic setting, but it's not what people wanted: what people wanted is the book you have a picture of. Your mistake is saying that the market views "fantasy heartbreakers" as D&D clones when, really, [I]every RPG is viewed as a D&D clone. [/I]To take a comparison from another thread, D&D is the Kleenex of the RPG industry and basically everything in the industry is defined by it. "D&D but space", "D&D but the 1980s", "D&D but cyberpunk", "D&D but _______" is how things are viewed regardless because for most people, D&D [I]is [/I]RPGs. As to Starfinder, I dunno. It doesn't interest me, but I suppose it's gotta interest some people as it seems relatively popular. Beyond Star Wars, what other setting are out there that might be doing better? Traveler? Phase Eclipse? I mean, anything that isn't D&D at this point is going to be niche. Pathfinder got the way it was not because it was an independent game, but because it attached itself to the previous D&D edition. The problem with supporting 5E is that instantly makes having your own system worthless: why produce a system when you are supporting the most popular and profitable system out there? Why convert to your system when they can just get everything in the system they already have. I get people wanting 5E Paizo support, but that doesn't really benefit Paizo at all if they intend to have their own system. That's great, I suppose? I mean, as a dude who has gotten tired of the simplistic yet convoluted (especially when you need to do multi-classing) nature of 5E builds, the modularity of PF2 is just so damn nice. Same with monsters, where barely anything misses and it's just a hard DPS race to the end. I haven't found monsters to be completely unhittable in PF2 yet, but that's just my experience. YMMV. But at the end, I think all these "PF2 should become more like 5E" calls always miss that we already have a 5E, and trying to become closer to that is just going to get you eaten up by 5E: the fewer differences, the fewer reasons to convert over from the biggest thing out there, while people who want differences go to something else. [/QUOTE]
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