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Is It Time for PF2 "Essentials"?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8230877" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Thank you for that post.</p><p></p><p>I think Paizo basically blew it. </p><p></p><p>They released a game that has serious presentation issues. </p><p></p><p>They released a game where minutae runs wild. Like, seriously, people still pretend like 2e is this cleaned-up much-improved game where everything's elegant and easy. But it's not. It just isn't. There's literally thousands of feats and items and whatnot that add arcane and byzantine little exceptions, or, worse, just exist to remove arcane and byzantine restrictions you would otherwise labor under.</p><p></p><p>They release a game that comes off as seriously not reading the market. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The game doesn't trust the gamer, and removes a lot of choice just to ensure nobody gets too powerful. In theory a nice idea, but they strangled all the fun out of it except for a niche cadre of hardcore tacticians. (That the first year's worth of adventures are seriously lethal, with the so-called "intro" game pitching newly hatched heroes against an Ogre that stands a non-trivial chance of one-shot insta-killing any hero, let alone a weak or injured one, doesn't exactly help)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They go "nah, WotC's strategy of fewer but more narratively significant releases is a fad" and doubles down by relentlessly flooding the market with THOUSANDS of feats when we already have like 800 in the CRB?!?!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The game gives off some serious 4E vibes as if that game wasn't dropped by WotC like a hot turd. (It doesn't actually play like 4E, but damage is done)</li> </ul><p></p><p>Everything about the Pathfinder 2 market line so far screams a world where 5E simply doesn't exist, and where PF2 just has to beat 4E to claim the crown. </p><p></p><p>It breaks my heart to see.</p><p></p><p>Zapp</p><p></p><p>PS. And to acknowledge the original topic, no, obviously a 2.5 or Essentials edition will just fracture the already tiny marketshare further and not help at all. I don't think there's a solution, I'm afraid. Not unless Paizo has unlimited coffers, and can just pretend everything's fine for two years or so while they secretly design an actually good game and we get Pathfinder 3 in 2022-2023...</p><p></p><p>PS. If you're new to the thread and are wondering where my specifics are, or if I'm just swinging wildly without any substance, let me link to an earlier post of mine where I constructively outline what would be needed to "save" PF2:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can understand if you share the reaction I got at the time: "but that's so many changes it's just a new game"... which is the point. Cheers <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8230877, member: 12731"] Thank you for that post. I think Paizo basically blew it. They released a game that has serious presentation issues. They released a game where minutae runs wild. Like, seriously, people still pretend like 2e is this cleaned-up much-improved game where everything's elegant and easy. But it's not. It just isn't. There's literally thousands of feats and items and whatnot that add arcane and byzantine little exceptions, or, worse, just exist to remove arcane and byzantine restrictions you would otherwise labor under. They release a game that comes off as seriously not reading the market. [LIST] [*]The game doesn't trust the gamer, and removes a lot of choice just to ensure nobody gets too powerful. In theory a nice idea, but they strangled all the fun out of it except for a niche cadre of hardcore tacticians. (That the first year's worth of adventures are seriously lethal, with the so-called "intro" game pitching newly hatched heroes against an Ogre that stands a non-trivial chance of one-shot insta-killing any hero, let alone a weak or injured one, doesn't exactly help) [*]They go "nah, WotC's strategy of fewer but more narratively significant releases is a fad" and doubles down by relentlessly flooding the market with THOUSANDS of feats when we already have like 800 in the CRB?!?! [*]The game gives off some serious 4E vibes as if that game wasn't dropped by WotC like a hot turd. (It doesn't actually play like 4E, but damage is done) [/LIST] Everything about the Pathfinder 2 market line so far screams a world where 5E simply doesn't exist, and where PF2 just has to beat 4E to claim the crown. It breaks my heart to see. Zapp PS. And to acknowledge the original topic, no, obviously a 2.5 or Essentials edition will just fracture the already tiny marketshare further and not help at all. I don't think there's a solution, I'm afraid. Not unless Paizo has unlimited coffers, and can just pretend everything's fine for two years or so while they secretly design an actually good game and we get Pathfinder 3 in 2022-2023... PS. If you're new to the thread and are wondering where my specifics are, or if I'm just swinging wildly without any substance, let me link to an earlier post of mine where I constructively outline what would be needed to "save" PF2: I can understand if you share the reaction I got at the time: "but that's so many changes it's just a new game"... which is the point. Cheers :) [/QUOTE]
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