Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 5738928" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>My, aren't we judgemental. Of course, the Goblin is not human, so we can decide they are hardwired for evil. In such case, it hardly seems unreasonable to put them down. But, if they are truly hardwired to that behaviour, it seems they are more neutral than evil, in that they lack the capacity for moral choice. They still need to be put down for the safety of others, though.</p><p> </p><p>I prefer goblins with free will.</p><p> </p><p>p 166 of the basic rules tells us good implies respect for life. Killing is, then, not a choice to be made on a whim, or without making every effort to find other options. Those options may not be convenience, but "Goopd characters make personal sacrifices to help others". </p><p> </p><p>Evil, from the same page, implies killing others. Creatures who "have no compassion" and "kill without qualms if doing so is convenient" are explicitly noted as evil. Those who "have compunctions about killing the innocent, but may lack the commitment to make sacrifces to protect or help others" are neutral. </p><p> </p><p>The question asked for RAW. Those are the RAW. </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Good isn't stupid. There may well be situations where killing is the only choice, and accepting surrender just to be stabbed in the back on a recurrent basis is not required. But Good is also not about taking the path of least resistance, it's not always easy, and it's not about personal convenience.</p><p> </p><p>My group handles this sort of thing as "a Paladin can refuse to accept a creature's surrender."</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>That sounds EXACTLY like the citizens of that country we're always in border skirmishes with, so I guess we can put them down with impunity as well, right?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Skunks are not sentient and lack the capacity to make a moral choice. That makes it different.</p><p> </p><p>A society that is Good will "make sacrifices to help others", which means they will tighten their belts and make those resources available, not decide they're "just bad blood" and slaughter them without a second thought. This is, at best Neutral - not willing to make personal sacrifices to help others.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Outsiders follow a whole different set of rules. They are hard coded Evil, so they can reasonably be taken down. If, in your game, Goblins are the same, the same rules should apply. But if Goblins are hard wired Evil, we may as well hard wire the humanoid races Good while we're at it. Why have any deviation? What makes some races hard wired and others not, on this plane?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Lawful and Good are separate. Killing for an evil master is explicitly noted as evil. Paladins don't get to "just follow orders" - they must ensure their orders are consistent with Good.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yup</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Again, yup - "hats" - "hardwired alignment".</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Revisiting p 266 - 267, while "Creatures with actively evil intent count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell", only creatires with 5+ HD actually have an aura of evil, so my previous comments are not accurate. I am inclined to consider that the "presence or absence of evil" is still detected (otherwise, that poor paladin has no actual ability for several levels, so why should he have it from L1 in the first place), but there will not be "evil auras" for the 2nd and 3rd round effects of the spell.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Bingo!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 5738928, member: 6681948"] My, aren't we judgemental. Of course, the Goblin is not human, so we can decide they are hardwired for evil. In such case, it hardly seems unreasonable to put them down. But, if they are truly hardwired to that behaviour, it seems they are more neutral than evil, in that they lack the capacity for moral choice. They still need to be put down for the safety of others, though. I prefer goblins with free will. p 166 of the basic rules tells us good implies respect for life. Killing is, then, not a choice to be made on a whim, or without making every effort to find other options. Those options may not be convenience, but "Goopd characters make personal sacrifices to help others". Evil, from the same page, implies killing others. Creatures who "have no compassion" and "kill without qualms if doing so is convenient" are explicitly noted as evil. Those who "have compunctions about killing the innocent, but may lack the commitment to make sacrifces to protect or help others" are neutral. The question asked for RAW. Those are the RAW. Good isn't stupid. There may well be situations where killing is the only choice, and accepting surrender just to be stabbed in the back on a recurrent basis is not required. But Good is also not about taking the path of least resistance, it's not always easy, and it's not about personal convenience. My group handles this sort of thing as "a Paladin can refuse to accept a creature's surrender." That sounds EXACTLY like the citizens of that country we're always in border skirmishes with, so I guess we can put them down with impunity as well, right? Skunks are not sentient and lack the capacity to make a moral choice. That makes it different. A society that is Good will "make sacrifices to help others", which means they will tighten their belts and make those resources available, not decide they're "just bad blood" and slaughter them without a second thought. This is, at best Neutral - not willing to make personal sacrifices to help others. Outsiders follow a whole different set of rules. They are hard coded Evil, so they can reasonably be taken down. If, in your game, Goblins are the same, the same rules should apply. But if Goblins are hard wired Evil, we may as well hard wire the humanoid races Good while we're at it. Why have any deviation? What makes some races hard wired and others not, on this plane? Lawful and Good are separate. Killing for an evil master is explicitly noted as evil. Paladins don't get to "just follow orders" - they must ensure their orders are consistent with Good. Yup Again, yup - "hats" - "hardwired alignment". Revisiting p 266 - 267, while "Creatures with actively evil intent count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell", only creatires with 5+ HD actually have an aura of evil, so my previous comments are not accurate. I am inclined to consider that the "presence or absence of evil" is still detected (otherwise, that poor paladin has no actual ability for several levels, so why should he have it from L1 in the first place), but there will not be "evil auras" for the 2nd and 3rd round effects of the spell. Bingo! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?
Top