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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9574858" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I think* there's some missing sub-text. I think people get upset about getting Held or Stun-locked "again," perhaps for despite their best efforts (that to, likely "again"). When a game mechanic is implemented in a way that doesn't seem satisfying, especially if it feels punitive or unavoidable or poorly meshing with the rest of the play experience, it can seem subjectively worse than something that quasi-objectively is worse. *so, preemptively, this is supposition and opinionSo yes, having your PC die obviously means more time not getting a turn, and should seem worse. However, generally game rules (or play patterns) level out to where rate (and avoidability) of PC death matches a level that players find acceptable -- and when they don't, PC death gets the same discussion treatment as being held (re: any thread akin to 'is the DCC funnel fun or just frustrating?', 'is _______ {meat grinder RPG} challenging or just random death,' etc.). Likewise, games* where getting out of being held is commensurate with other combat challenges and/or stunning happens but continuous stun-lock is unlikely** don't seem to generate this kind of discussion.*I'm thinking GURPS stun rules and Hero System entangle powers, although it's been a while for both (and I'm sure there are other examples). **perhaps unless you are in a general death-spiral, in which case that becomes the subject of conversation.I think that's the crux. There are some things in D&D that still harken back to the era where it was a reasonable assumption that there would be another character to play while yours was out of commission. That playstyle has been rendered non-universal, but some effects that were reasonable under that assumption (and less so under others) are still in place. I mean, that's the issue -- people do want varying effects*, you just have to design them in a way that compliments the rest of the play pattern of the game. *certainly a game where the only combat effect out there is hp/damage is pretty uninspiring.</blockquote>

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