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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5691730" data-attributes="member: 22779">I'm not really sure that tool doesn't equal plot device.  If I have X fantastical element, and it only goes towards solving the plot, and never really gets applied to the setting, that's a plot device.  Oh, certainly.  And, by and large, I do.  D&D is hardly the only offender here as well.  Old WoD was bad for this as well.  Funily enough, the WoD <s>ripoffs</s> movies (Underworld etc) show a Vampire world that is far better at incorporating the fantastic than The Masquerade was.  The problem with this is twofold.  One, I'm not just talking about wizards, but the incorporation of the fantastic in general.  In Basic/Expert D&D, for example, the honey from Giant Bees work as healing potions.  I'm thinking that bee keeping is going to be a pretty high priority for settlements when the honey actually heals wounds.Go through the Monster Manual in any edition and there are a host of other examples like this.The other problem is that as far as magic goes, it's not really the wizard that's the issue - it's the cleric.  Continual Light is a 2nd level cleric spell.  Purify food and drink, Create Water, etc.  Wizards are not really the problem at all.Why?  Why would wizards/clerics have a specific issue with this?  Yeah, Eberron is the exception here.  Although, funnily enough, Eberron is also one of the most "fantastic" of the settings as well.  Floating cities, giant magical wastelands, fantastic races are treated as mostly mundane, magic railroads, etc.  Really, IMO, Eberron is the first D&D setting to actually take the fantastic into account in its design.  I suppose Planescape might probably be the first though.  I don't know enough about it to really have an opinion.</blockquote>

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