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Message: <blockquote data-quote="satori01" data-source="post: 3313782" data-attributes="member: 7859">Despite the use of the word gimped, I am not saying that Spells are worthless at high level.  I said the Direct Damage spell does not scale as fast in terms of damage as well as Warriors do, and for that spell to work, often times the Magic Using character has to succeed on a succesion of rolls that a Warrior will not have to, (Saving Throw, SR etc).The complaint that a Spell Caster has to make too many dice rolls for the same or lesser effect was brought by one of my players.  The guy is a bit of a complainer,  no he is a bit of a huge complainer, but as my 3 year long running campaign is reaching the 17/18 level, I see what he is taking about.In high pressure circumstances, most tank classes just need to roll to hit,  and most warriors are almost guaranteed to hit with their first 2 attacks.  In the Disentergrate example, the Character had to deal with a Ranged Touch Attack, Concealment, Mirror Image, SR and Saving Throws.That is a lot of extra chances to mitigate the damage a spell caster can inflict.  Monsters do not get a chance to make a Saving Throw to reduce or negate a Scimitar's critical hit.  Also at high levels what are the common big bad monster types: Outsiders & Dragons.  What do they both have: Good Saves, really good saves.Look at the spells that people tout as being super effective at high level:  Holy Word: Not Direct Damage,  Banishment: Not Direct Damage, Shapechange: Not Direct Damage, Disintegrate:  Direct Damage, but such a huge amount of Dice to be rolled that lowish HP, Low Fort Save creatures will die.Magic becomes more about either skirting the Hit Point mechanic, or battle field control, or spells that ignore spell resistance and offer no save, or multi effect spells that even if the damage portion is saved against still have some effect.This means Spell Compendium and a lot of research on the part of the player is a must.  It also means a large paradigm shift from 1e.</blockquote>

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