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Is my DM being fair?
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<blockquote data-quote="smbakeresq" data-source="post: 7415182" data-attributes="member: 28301"><p>I would never use perception the way you do. Every player would move a small distance, stop, Observe, move small distance, stop Observe. It would drag the game too much. I do like the idea, but every intelligent creature in the world would do the same thing.</p><p></p><p>Nothing in any ruleset anyway require that PC be informed that you are in Initiative and thus Combat, that destroys any element of surprise. If a enemy is hiding he is in combat, taking the hide action, and doing so over and over again waiting for the trigger. His initiative is set, its right before the PC who activates the trigger. Otherwise the PC can ruin an ambush just getting lucky on initiative, that's not the intent of the rules. An invisible, hidden behind total cover creature who rolled a 1 for initiative wont get the drop on anyone, the minute you call for initiative every PC knows something is there and all the PC will start taking actions to detect something that they should have no idea is there unless you say "you cant possibly detect anything so you cant take any actions" then makes the table feel screwed. </p><p></p><p>IMO, Passive Perception is misused by players and DMS alike. Here is the PHB example:</p><p></p><p><em>Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat. The DM might decide that a threat can be noticed only by characters in a particular rank.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p></p><p></p><p>You cant ask your players their passive perception scores at the table, you give the game away then. You need to know them before the session starts, and then unless the PC tell you different like "We are moving slower to be aware of threats" they get no perception check to notice things, you only get your passive and only for the PC's in the right spots like in the example above. From Reddit user Ironforged:</p><p></p><p><em>Passive scores are a DM tool to use in two different situations.</em></p><p><em>The character is doing something over and over again repeatedly and you want to speed up play. Example, they are walking cautiously down a dungeon corridor on the lookout for traps and other dangers. You as the DM don't want to slow the game down by having them roll every ten or twenty feet, so you just use passive perception and passive investigation.</em></p><p><em>The character has a chance of doing something, but the act of rolling gives the player too much information so you want to test against their passive score so no roll is made. Example, when a group of monsters is about to ambush the party and surprise them, or when the succubus is disguise and blatantly lying to them, so you make the stealth and deception checks against passive perception and passive insight.</em></p><p><em>Those are the only two different ways covered in the PHB that passive scores are used.</em></p><p><em>The word "passive" has nothing to do with situation 1 at all but yet that is what they decided to call it, I think it wasn't the best term.</em></p><p><em>Addressing your concern, I don't ever have them roll if I used their passive score, it is either something I use to speed up play or to keep information from them, passive scores are not a safety net.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Also, passive perception still requires something for you to perceive. A silent creature hiding behind total cover that has no scent to me means no perception check will ever reveal them. That's what blind sight, tremor sense, etc are for.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smbakeresq, post: 7415182, member: 28301"] I would never use perception the way you do. Every player would move a small distance, stop, Observe, move small distance, stop Observe. It would drag the game too much. I do like the idea, but every intelligent creature in the world would do the same thing. Nothing in any ruleset anyway require that PC be informed that you are in Initiative and thus Combat, that destroys any element of surprise. If a enemy is hiding he is in combat, taking the hide action, and doing so over and over again waiting for the trigger. His initiative is set, its right before the PC who activates the trigger. Otherwise the PC can ruin an ambush just getting lucky on initiative, that's not the intent of the rules. An invisible, hidden behind total cover creature who rolled a 1 for initiative wont get the drop on anyone, the minute you call for initiative every PC knows something is there and all the PC will start taking actions to detect something that they should have no idea is there unless you say "you cant possibly detect anything so you cant take any actions" then makes the table feel screwed. IMO, Passive Perception is misused by players and DMS alike. Here is the PHB example: [I]Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat. The DM might decide that a threat can be noticed only by characters in a particular rank. [/I] You cant ask your players their passive perception scores at the table, you give the game away then. You need to know them before the session starts, and then unless the PC tell you different like "We are moving slower to be aware of threats" they get no perception check to notice things, you only get your passive and only for the PC's in the right spots like in the example above. From Reddit user Ironforged: [I]Passive scores are a DM tool to use in two different situations. The character is doing something over and over again repeatedly and you want to speed up play. Example, they are walking cautiously down a dungeon corridor on the lookout for traps and other dangers. You as the DM don't want to slow the game down by having them roll every ten or twenty feet, so you just use passive perception and passive investigation. The character has a chance of doing something, but the act of rolling gives the player too much information so you want to test against their passive score so no roll is made. Example, when a group of monsters is about to ambush the party and surprise them, or when the succubus is disguise and blatantly lying to them, so you make the stealth and deception checks against passive perception and passive insight. Those are the only two different ways covered in the PHB that passive scores are used. The word "passive" has nothing to do with situation 1 at all but yet that is what they decided to call it, I think it wasn't the best term. Addressing your concern, I don't ever have them roll if I used their passive score, it is either something I use to speed up play or to keep information from them, passive scores are not a safety net. [/I] Also, passive perception still requires something for you to perceive. A silent creature hiding behind total cover that has no scent to me means no perception check will ever reveal them. That's what blind sight, tremor sense, etc are for. [/QUOTE]
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