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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2698586" data-attributes="member: 307">That's highly debateable, and highly selective. Look at a pair of characters equal level, point buy, and roughly equal relevant equipment:Wizard (22 points)16th level WizardStr 8; Int 30 (18 base, +4 level ups, +6 headband, + 2 book); Wis 10; Dex 10; Con 10: Cha 8Arcane Spells - 0th: 4, 1st: 7, 2nd: 7, 3rd: 6, 4th: 6, 5th: 6, 6th: 4, 7th: 4, 8th: 3I will note that he has access to any cleric spell of less than 5th level using limited wish, although it is expensive to do so. He also has full familiar progression, a caster level of 16, and three bonus wizard feats. He also has an average of 41.5 hit points.Mystic Theurge3rd level Cleric/3rd level Wizard/10th level Mystic TheurgeStr 8; Int 24 (16 base, +2 level ups, +6 headband); Wis 24 (16 base, +2 level ups, +6 periapt); Dex 8; Con 8; Cha 8Arcane Spells - 0th: 4, 1st: 6, 2nd: 6, 3rd: 6, 4th: 5, 5th: 4, 6th: 3, 7th: 2Divine Spells - 0th: 6, 1st: 7+1, 2nd: 7+1, 3rd: 6+1, 4th: 5+1, 5th: 4+1, 6th: 3+1, 7th: 2+1TOTAL - 0th: 10, 1st: 13+1, 2nd: 13+1, 3rd: 12+1, 4th: 10+1, 5th: 9+1, 6th: 6+1, 7th: 4+1He has no bonus feats. His caster level for these spells is 13, his familiar progression is limited to 3rd level, as is his turning ability. He has an average of 46.5 hit points. He does gain a pair of domains, with associated powers, and the value of this may vary wildly depending on the domains.So, the net spell difference for the Mystic Theurge is:0th: +6, 1st: +7, 2nd: +7, 3rd: +7, 4th: +5, 5th: +4, 6th: +3, 7th: +1, 8th: -3Now, that seems like a lot of extra spells, however, one should note that the save DC for the straight wizard (exclusive of feats) is 10 + spell level. For the mystic theurge it is 7 + spell level. To gain the range of spells he has, the mystic theurge must effectively sacrifice 3 caster levels and 3 points of save DC, reducing the level dependent variables of his spells, and making it that much harder for his spells to have effect. The mystic theurge's sundry powers (familiar, turning) are mostly useless.And then you get to the real kicker. The wizard is one level away from 9th level spells. When the two characters go up to 17th level, the wizard gains 1 6th level spell and 1 9th level spell. The mystic theurge (since he is maxed out in his PrC) gains a single 7th level spell. Now the wizard has two levels worth of spells that the mystic theurge has no access to, including, for example, wish, which he could use. for example, to make his casting attribute even higher. A 16th level mystic theurge is at the apex of his power curve, and it is all downhill from there. By picking 16th level, you skewed the results in favor of the mystic theurge, and there are still trade-offs that make the class less than obviously superior. If I had wanted to offset some of the "spell slots" advantage of the mystic theurge in the comparison, I could have made his comparative character a specialist wizard, or a cleric, both of which would have had the effect of giving the comparing character more spell slots.The multiclass wizard/cleric makes no sense to play with or without the mystic theurge. Harping on such an obviously inferior choice in a discussion concerning the balanced nature of classes scores you no points. It just makes your argument look weak and trivial.</blockquote>

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