Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2700435" data-attributes="member: 2011">Actually, the spell point method is fairly bogus and you are more mistaken than him. So is the magic item creation Spell Level * Caster Level for that matter.The problem with these methods is that they do not scale properly.Using them, you are claiming that 2nd level spells are 3 times as potent as 1st level spells and that 9th level spells are 17/15 times as powerful as 8th level spells.2 to 1 and 9 to 8 are not perfect, but they are better than the spell point system, especially on the lower end.For example:15th level Cone of Cold is 1.5 times as potent (more if the opponent has Resistance) than a 15th level Fireball. The straight up 5 to 3 comparison makes it 1.67 times as potent. Your 9 to 5 comparison makes it 1.8 times as potent.15th level Cone of Cold is the same as a 15th level Empowered Fireball. The straight up 5 to 5 comparison makes it the same. Your 9 to 7 comparison (Empower is +2 points in spell or power point systems) makes it 1.29 times as potent.Spell points are notoriously inaccurate as a measurement.Although an interesting comparison, I am not sure this actually show us anything real. For example, throw a Sorcerer into the mix:[CODE]Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Cleric&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard&nbsp; &nbsp; Mystic Thurge&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorcerer1&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 83&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 154&nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 485&nbsp; &nbsp; 80&nbsp; &nbsp; 50&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 706&nbsp; &nbsp; 126&nbsp; &nbsp; 90&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1507&nbsp; &nbsp; 210&nbsp; &nbsp; 140&nbsp; &nbsp; 68&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2108&nbsp; &nbsp; 296&nbsp; &nbsp; 216&nbsp; &nbsp; 130&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3609&nbsp; &nbsp; 441&nbsp; &nbsp; 306&nbsp; &nbsp; 216&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 46810&nbsp; &nbsp; 580&nbsp; &nbsp; 430&nbsp; &nbsp; 350&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 71011&nbsp; &nbsp; 814&nbsp; &nbsp; 572&nbsp; &nbsp; 512&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 88012&nbsp; &nbsp; 1020&nbsp; &nbsp; 756&nbsp; &nbsp; 747&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 123613&nbsp; &nbsp; 1365&nbsp; &nbsp; 962&nbsp; &nbsp; 1010&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 148214&nbsp; &nbsp; 1652&nbsp; &nbsp; 1218&nbsp; &nbsp; 1386&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 197415&nbsp; &nbsp; 2130&nbsp; &nbsp; 1500&nbsp; &nbsp; 1776&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 231016&nbsp; &nbsp; 2512&nbsp; &nbsp; 1840&nbsp; &nbsp; 2327&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 296017&nbsp; &nbsp; 3145&nbsp; &nbsp; 2210&nbsp; &nbsp; 2583&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 340018&nbsp; &nbsp; 3636&nbsp; &nbsp; 2646&nbsp; &nbsp; 2865&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 423019&nbsp; &nbsp; 4066&nbsp; &nbsp; 3097&nbsp; &nbsp; 3205&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 478820&nbsp; &nbsp; 4460&nbsp; &nbsp; 3600&nbsp; &nbsp; 3575&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5400[/CODE]According to this, the Sorcerer is more powerful than the other 3 classes starting at 6th level to the point that he is a level more powerful than the Wizard starting at 8 level, two levels more powerful than the Wizard at 16th level (even though Wizards get 9th level spells at 17th level and Sorcerers do not, the 17th level Sorcerer is still considered 2 levels more potent), and a level more powerful than a Cleric at level 18.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2700435, member: 2011"] Actually, the spell point method is fairly bogus and you are more mistaken than him. So is the magic item creation Spell Level * Caster Level for that matter. The problem with these methods is that they do not scale properly. Using them, you are claiming that 2nd level spells are 3 times as potent as 1st level spells and that 9th level spells are 17/15 times as powerful as 8th level spells. 2 to 1 and 9 to 8 are not perfect, but they are better than the spell point system, especially on the lower end. For example: 15th level Cone of Cold is 1.5 times as potent (more if the opponent has Resistance) than a 15th level Fireball. The straight up 5 to 3 comparison makes it 1.67 times as potent. Your 9 to 5 comparison makes it 1.8 times as potent. 15th level Cone of Cold is the same as a 15th level Empowered Fireball. The straight up 5 to 5 comparison makes it the same. Your 9 to 7 comparison (Empower is +2 points in spell or power point systems) makes it 1.29 times as potent. Spell points are notoriously inaccurate as a measurement. Although an interesting comparison, I am not sure this actually show us anything real. For example, throw a Sorcerer into the mix: [CODE] Level Cleric Wizard Mystic Thurge Sorcerer 1 2 1 1 3 2 6 4 4 8 3 21 12 12 15 4 40 28 14 48 5 80 50 18 70 6 126 90 33 150 7 210 140 68 210 8 296 216 130 360 9 441 306 216 468 10 580 430 350 710 11 814 572 512 880 12 1020 756 747 1236 13 1365 962 1010 1482 14 1652 1218 1386 1974 15 2130 1500 1776 2310 16 2512 1840 2327 2960 17 3145 2210 2583 3400 18 3636 2646 2865 4230 19 4066 3097 3205 4788 20 4460 3600 3575 5400 [/CODE] According to this, the Sorcerer is more powerful than the other 3 classes starting at 6th level to the point that he is a level more powerful than the Wizard starting at 8 level, two levels more powerful than the Wizard at 16th level (even though Wizards get 9th level spells at 17th level and Sorcerers do not, the 17th level Sorcerer is still considered 2 levels more potent), and a level more powerful than a Cleric at level 18. [/QUOTE]

Verification