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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 2700573" data-attributes="member: 18363">Personally I feel that the MT is a bit on the weak side, but I cannot see any way of changing that without making it too strong. Especially as it is generalized enough to use with any combination of divine / arcane classes (bard / druid, for instance, although the loses each would face [music, lore, wildshape, various druid specials, etc] would all but make this particular example untenable). It is a patch - remarkably well thought out, actually - to the problem of multiclassing pure casters with other classes - in this instance other pure casters. It does not need flavor, as the flavor comes from the mix of the two core classes (cleric and wizard, as the most common example). On the other hand, I see the epic progression of the MT as a joke. No one can take it until around levels 30 to 50 as they must first raise at least one of their core classes to level 20 - classes which are often no more than 3rd or 5th level at the time. By the time a high enough level is gained to allow entrance into epic MT the purpose for taking the PrC is mostly lost. One casting class has usually so vastly exceeded the other as to redefine the character in its pattern - overshadowing the second caster class completely in the process. One cannot state themselves to be an equal (or even an almost equal) practicioner of both Arcane and Divine when one is a Clr 20 / Wiz 3 / MT 11 (or a Clr 3 / Wiz 20 / MT 11). Of course, the player may choose to go back upon reaching the non-epic ceiling of the PrC's 10th level. This is a mixed blessing, for the player will most definately fall behind for several levels. However, the player will also be regaining many of the lost abilities from persuing MT - turning and familiar progression, (non-epic) bonus wizard feats, etc. They will eventually reach epic in one or both classes around level 50 - presuming the campaign still continues. At this point, however, they will see that in epic levels it is better to alternate - and gain the continued benefits of turning / bonus feats / etc progression - than to take the MT pattern - which itself is no more than alteration without these benefits. Hmm, I think, considering the odd way epic rules work (for bab and saves) it would be better upon reaching the non-epic PrC limit to continue entirely in Cleric for four levels then to take a couple levels of wizard, then one of cleric, then a couple more of wizard, and then to start the actual alteration process. It would enhance the Fort save and BAB beyond what typical alteration would achieve. Of course, if one does not expect to be playing that long into the campaign (not many quests I've heard of reach beyond 30th level, and rare are the ones that reach beyond 20th) then perhaps a few levels in another PrC that grants either dual progression or alternating progression with a few specials might work instead of alternating the original divine / arcane classes. Grr. I still don't like the fact that under epic rules a Ftr 20 / Wiz 20 is not identical to a Wiz 20 / Ftr 20. Of course, they also have a PrC to work around this problem - somewhat. Considering they have official 11+ level PrCs (True Necromancer, the PrC Bard, Paladin, and Ranger, a few others), I've always been of the opinion that the ones created as patches should have allowed for 15 levels - enough to get the combination meant to be patched into epic levels without having to rely on falling back on their former core classes. Ah well, that's a subject for another thread - which in truth has already been debated numerous times in the past.</blockquote>

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