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Is necromancy evil or only as harmless as talking to your dead grandmother?
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<blockquote data-quote="grufflehead" data-source="post: 5189966" data-attributes="member: 35977"><p>Links please! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>There is an argument (yes, it is an argument, whereas this is a debate) going on over at the Paizo boards right now on pretty much this topic.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/general/animateDeadIsEvilWhy" target="_blank">paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / Animate Dead is evil? why?</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>As regards our question the answer is option B. You, as GM are perfectly free to interpret it however you want. The responders who say the answer is A are simply saying 'in my game, I am telling the players that using Necromancy is evil; it is part of the fabric of my campaign, and so you will be judged accordingly if you choose to do so'. For the others, they *may* also choose to say it is evil, but they may not. There are plenty of Arcanis players round these parts - go ask them how they feel about undead, evil and necromancy.</p><p></p><p>What irks me is that the 3.5 (and PF) rules put this descriptor on certain spells - so I'll invoke Rule 0 to throw them into the bin. I'll interpret it however I want, thanks. If using 'real world' pseudo-historical examples to justify it works for you, be my guest, but last time I looked this was a fantasy game, so don't assume we are all going to look at cultures through history and equate messing with the dead as evil because that's how Earth cultures have always behaved. If Guttenberg had hired a party of adventurers to stop a giant crushing his first press, or the Great Fire of London was started by a wizard using Burning Hands to kill a group of plague-ridden rats I'd be more willing to play along with that school of thought.</p><p></p><p>On the subject of why some spells have certain descriptors, it's an artifact of the evolution of D&D. 1st Ed healing was necromantic, because 'necromantic' spells all dealt with death, the body, flesh etc in those days. TSR/WotC made a small rod for their own back by allowing specialist wizards. To do that, game balance dictates they must have choices, and that those choices must be vaguely balanced - after all, you wouldn't play a conjurer if you only had access to 2 spells at a level when your evoker had 5. I can only assume - although this is clerical magic - this was why Healing became conjuration amongst other changes.</p><p></p><p>On the 'Speak with Dead' question, I (and many others) could write you a RP from pretty much any alignment you care to mention on how they might use SwD. LG City Guard investigator finds murder victim and wants to get a lead on who did it? The body is treated respectfully, and according to due process, being properly interred on conclusion. CG Life Priestess is performing the death ceremony on one of the tribal elders and part of it involves saying last farewells to loved ones? She weeps with sorrow as she performs the ritual, then inters the body with infinite kindness. LE Anti-Paladin has killed a group of rebels who have attacked his master's palace and wants to find out who their allies are? He delights in their screams as their shattered bodies are wracked with the very fires of Hell. Same spell, different flavour.</p><p></p><p>I don't play evil characters full stop. I have used Animate Dead once in nearly 30 years of D&D. An old 1st adventure called Dwellers of the Forbidden City. We went through PCs like socks, until the 3 of us who survived decided to cut our losses and run. We were weeks away from civilisation, in a hostile environment, too low level to Teleport home, no storage devices, with reason to believe that if we buried our comrades they may well be animated by some of the other denizens of the place. So, after great soul searching, my cleric animated every last one of them, dressed them in robes and marched them back through the jungle so they could be given proper burials, returned to their loved ones, or raised if they wished (as we sold every piece of treasure we found to make a fund to do it). Evil act...?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="grufflehead, post: 5189966, member: 35977"] Links please! ;) There is an argument (yes, it is an argument, whereas this is a debate) going on over at the Paizo boards right now on pretty much this topic. [URL="http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/general/animateDeadIsEvilWhy"]paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / Animate Dead is evil? why?[/URL] As regards our question the answer is option B. You, as GM are perfectly free to interpret it however you want. The responders who say the answer is A are simply saying 'in my game, I am telling the players that using Necromancy is evil; it is part of the fabric of my campaign, and so you will be judged accordingly if you choose to do so'. For the others, they *may* also choose to say it is evil, but they may not. There are plenty of Arcanis players round these parts - go ask them how they feel about undead, evil and necromancy. What irks me is that the 3.5 (and PF) rules put this descriptor on certain spells - so I'll invoke Rule 0 to throw them into the bin. I'll interpret it however I want, thanks. If using 'real world' pseudo-historical examples to justify it works for you, be my guest, but last time I looked this was a fantasy game, so don't assume we are all going to look at cultures through history and equate messing with the dead as evil because that's how Earth cultures have always behaved. If Guttenberg had hired a party of adventurers to stop a giant crushing his first press, or the Great Fire of London was started by a wizard using Burning Hands to kill a group of plague-ridden rats I'd be more willing to play along with that school of thought. On the subject of why some spells have certain descriptors, it's an artifact of the evolution of D&D. 1st Ed healing was necromantic, because 'necromantic' spells all dealt with death, the body, flesh etc in those days. TSR/WotC made a small rod for their own back by allowing specialist wizards. To do that, game balance dictates they must have choices, and that those choices must be vaguely balanced - after all, you wouldn't play a conjurer if you only had access to 2 spells at a level when your evoker had 5. I can only assume - although this is clerical magic - this was why Healing became conjuration amongst other changes. On the 'Speak with Dead' question, I (and many others) could write you a RP from pretty much any alignment you care to mention on how they might use SwD. LG City Guard investigator finds murder victim and wants to get a lead on who did it? The body is treated respectfully, and according to due process, being properly interred on conclusion. CG Life Priestess is performing the death ceremony on one of the tribal elders and part of it involves saying last farewells to loved ones? She weeps with sorrow as she performs the ritual, then inters the body with infinite kindness. LE Anti-Paladin has killed a group of rebels who have attacked his master's palace and wants to find out who their allies are? He delights in their screams as their shattered bodies are wracked with the very fires of Hell. Same spell, different flavour. I don't play evil characters full stop. I have used Animate Dead once in nearly 30 years of D&D. An old 1st adventure called Dwellers of the Forbidden City. We went through PCs like socks, until the 3 of us who survived decided to cut our losses and run. We were weeks away from civilisation, in a hostile environment, too low level to Teleport home, no storage devices, with reason to believe that if we buried our comrades they may well be animated by some of the other denizens of the place. So, after great soul searching, my cleric animated every last one of them, dressed them in robes and marched them back through the jungle so they could be given proper burials, returned to their loved ones, or raised if they wished (as we sold every piece of treasure we found to make a fund to do it). Evil act...? [/QUOTE]
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