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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4886691" data-attributes="member: 18280">The biggest problem with this sort of argument is that, all too often (IME, nearly universally), it is shorthand for &quot;I don't want to hear what you have to say, so shut up about it.&quot;I don't know about you, but I have been through &quot;This term has no meaning&quot; discussions on EN World before.&nbsp; Because a term has no agreed upon, set-in-stone definition does not mean that it has neither meaning or value.Because if it did mean that, may I point out that you're no less likely to reach a consensus definition on &quot;old school&quot; than you are on the term &quot;D&amp;D&quot; itself.&nbsp; There are lots of gamers who don't think 4e, or 3e for that matter, are D&amp;D.&nbsp; Should we stop using the term?&nbsp; There are gamers who think that 3rd party games not bearing the logo are D&amp;D, and gamers who do not.&nbsp; Should we stop using the term?&nbsp; Gygax suggested that too many house rules took the game out of the sphere of D&amp;D.&nbsp; Does your game use any house rules?&nbsp; Is it still D&amp;D?&nbsp; Should we stop using the term?Obviously not.&nbsp; We accept that the term may (does!) mean different things to different people and clarify when we believe we need clarification.By all means, open threads to attempt to clarify what people mean by the terms OS &amp; NS.&nbsp; That is truly worthwhile, and aids in mutual understanding when respectfully done.&nbsp; Try to squash the term because you don't understand it, or don't like what (you believe) it implies?&nbsp; Not so much.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4886691, member: 18280"] The biggest problem with this sort of argument is that, all too often (IME, nearly universally), it is shorthand for "I don't want to hear what you have to say, so shut up about it." I don't know about you, but I have been through "This term has no meaning" discussions on EN World before. Because a term has no agreed upon, set-in-stone definition does not mean that it has neither meaning or value. Because if it did mean that, may I point out that you're no less likely to reach a consensus definition on "old school" than you are on the term "D&D" itself. There are lots of gamers who don't think 4e, or 3e for that matter, are D&D. Should we stop using the term? There are gamers who think that 3rd party games not bearing the logo are D&D, and gamers who do not. Should we stop using the term? Gygax suggested that too many house rules took the game out of the sphere of D&D. Does your game use any house rules? Is it still D&D? Should we stop using the term? Obviously not. We accept that the term may (does!) mean different things to different people and clarify when we believe we need clarification. By all means, open threads to attempt to clarify what people mean by the terms OS & NS. That is truly worthwhile, and aids in mutual understanding when respectfully done. Try to squash the term because you don't understand it, or don't like what (you believe) it implies? Not so much. RC [/QUOTE]

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