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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 4887257" data-attributes="member: 80487">Legally, they cannot actually be identical &quot;clones&quot;; when in doubt, the designers have favored caution. LL is about as close as possible. The OSRIC core leaves out some parts, including some Gygax suggested that in retrospect he would delete. S&amp;W is by intent a departure in key ways, rather than a strict duplication, as is BFRPG.It may be a distinction of an &quot;old-school&quot; ethos that the differences from one game to another are regarded as of such little significance, especially in the circles of OD&amp;D and S&amp;W players. The fine points of the mathematical constructs are not really the focus of interest, and those who wish to change them simply do so without concern for any &quot;official&quot; line.Thasmodius's notion that choosing a different set of approaches for the latest &quot;official&quot; rules set constitutes &quot;advancement&quot; is not one with which I agree. It is not a move forward, but rather is a move sideways through a range of variations that has been present from early days.Changing D&amp;D to be in some regard more like Champions or The Fantasy Trip or whatever hardly makes it &quot;better D&amp;D&quot;. It just makes it different from the established referent of &quot;D&amp;D&quot; and more like something else.Now, that may be a good commercial move if the &quot;something else&quot; has been a good seller and some of its market might be captured. Old D&amp;D itself spawned a lot of imitators! GURPS is not &quot;a better version of&quot; rival Hero System, but it has many similar features and a segment of the population may like its different take better and buy it instead -- and vice-versa.If you want to sell a lot of &quot;fast food&quot; in California, then burritos might beat bowls of noodles; but the reverse might hold in China. If you're going for a more up-scale restaurant business, then maybe other dishes are more appropriate.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 4887257, member: 80487"] Legally, they cannot actually be identical "clones"; when in doubt, the designers have favored caution. LL is about as close as possible. The OSRIC core leaves out some parts, including some Gygax suggested that in retrospect he would delete. S&W is by intent a departure in key ways, rather than a strict duplication, as is BFRPG. It may be a distinction of an "old-school" ethos that the differences from one game to another are regarded as of such little significance, especially in the circles of OD&D and S&W players. The fine points of the mathematical constructs are not really the focus of interest, and those who wish to change them simply do so without concern for any "official" line. Thasmodius's notion that choosing a different set of approaches for the latest "official" rules set constitutes "advancement" is not one with which I agree. It is not a move forward, but rather is a move [I]sideways[/I] through a range of variations that has been present from early days. Changing D&D to be in some regard more like [I]Champions[/I] or [I]The Fantasy Trip[/I] or whatever hardly makes it "better D&D". It just makes it different from the established referent of "D&D" and more like something else. Now, that may be a good commercial move if the "something else" has been a good seller and some of its market might be captured. Old D&D itself spawned a lot of imitators! [I]GURPS[/I] is not "a better version of" rival [I]Hero System[/I], but it has many similar features and a segment of the population may like its different take better and buy it instead -- and vice-versa. If you want to sell a lot of "fast food" in California, then burritos might beat bowls of noodles; but the reverse might hold in China. If you're going for a more up-scale restaurant business, then maybe other dishes are more appropriate. [/QUOTE]

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