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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5593100" data-attributes="member: 463">I always have trouble understanding this mindset, especially in a polytheist setting.&nbsp; There are so many examples of mortals fighting &amp; sometimes beating gods in myth and fantasy literature.&nbsp; Here are a few from myth:Iliad: Ares is hacking through the Greek army on the field of Troy.&nbsp; Athena buffs the Greek hero Diomedes - &quot;guiding his spear&quot; - Diomedes proceeds to pwn Ares, dispelling the God of War and sending him howling back to Olympus.Iliad: Aphrodite sees a beloved Trojan hero (Aenas?) in trouble, so she manifests to protect him.&nbsp; A Greek hero (Achilles?) stabs her in the hand and she dispels, crying like a girl as she flees back to Olympus.&nbsp; Make love not war, Aphrodite.Bible - Old Testament: Jacob meets a stranger - actually God - on the road.&nbsp; They wrestle for hours, neither able to beat the other.&nbsp; God eventually cheats, kicking Jacob's ankle, and wins.There are tons from sword &amp; sorcery stories, Moorcock's Eternal Champion in particular fights a lot of Chaos Lords, though only the weaker ones are defeated by direct force.&nbsp; But Elric + Stormbringer matches Xiombarg and her own sword in single combat late in 'Stormbringer', and holds his own.Edit: Maybe we have different definitions of 'mortal' - I'd say Elric at the end of Stormbringer was a 30th level PC; Achilles and Diomedes are high Paragon or conceivably early Epic, but definitely all three are still mortal.&nbsp; Hercules would be an Epic PC on the Demigod path, but is dead/ascended by the time of the Iliad.Edit:&nbsp; Since the Greek gods are unkillable, I guess you could treat Ares &amp; Aphrodite at Troy as Aspects/Avatars of the actual deities, although that's not how they're described.&nbsp; The description of them being dispelled back to their 'home plane' is a lot closer to the pre-3e D&amp;D approach.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 5593100, member: 463"] I always have trouble understanding this mindset, especially in a polytheist setting. There are so many examples of mortals fighting & sometimes beating gods in myth and fantasy literature. Here are a few from myth: Iliad: Ares is hacking through the Greek army on the field of Troy. Athena buffs the Greek hero Diomedes - "guiding his spear" - Diomedes proceeds to pwn Ares, dispelling the God of War and sending him howling back to Olympus. Iliad: Aphrodite sees a beloved Trojan hero (Aenas?) in trouble, so she manifests to protect him. A Greek hero (Achilles?) stabs her in the hand and she dispels, crying like a girl as she flees back to Olympus. Make love not war, Aphrodite. Bible - Old Testament: Jacob meets a stranger - actually God - on the road. They wrestle for hours, neither able to beat the other. God eventually cheats, kicking Jacob's ankle, and wins. There are tons from sword & sorcery stories, Moorcock's Eternal Champion in particular fights a lot of Chaos Lords, though only the weaker ones are defeated by direct force. But Elric + Stormbringer matches Xiombarg and her own sword in single combat late in 'Stormbringer', and holds his own. Edit: Maybe we have different definitions of 'mortal' - I'd say Elric at the end of Stormbringer was a 30th level PC; Achilles and Diomedes are high Paragon or conceivably early Epic, but definitely all three are still mortal. Hercules would be an Epic PC on the Demigod path, but is dead/ascended by the time of the Iliad. Edit: Since the Greek gods are unkillable, I guess you could treat Ares & Aphrodite at Troy as Aspects/Avatars of the actual deities, although that's not how they're described. The description of them being dispelled back to their 'home plane' is a lot closer to the pre-3e D&D approach. [/QUOTE]

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