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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7630192" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p><span style="color: #FFF8DC"><em><span style="color: #CCCCCC"></span></em></span></p><p><span style="color: #FFF8DC"><em><span style="color: #CCCCCC"></span></em></span></p><p><span style="color: #FFF8DC"><em><span style="color: #CCCCCC"></span></em></span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only very, very tacitly following this thread, but this caught my eye in a "what in the world...?" sort of way.</p><p></p><p>I think this may in fact be a source of dissonance that you and I have in some of these conversations, particularly where it pertains to The Forge and, more specifically, "system matters."</p><p></p><p>The most fundamental core mechanic of VtM and White Wolf games is "The Golden Rule" or "there are no rules" or, apropos, "system doesn't matter." </p><p> </p><p> @<em><strong><u><a href="https://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a></u></strong></em> is referring to AD&D 2e above (surely), not 1e. AD&D 2e went all-in on this ethos (unlike OD&D, 1e, and B/X). CoC does as well. The lifeblood of those three gaming systems are overwhelmingly GM Force and opacity, inadequacy, incoherency, or impotency of action resolutions mechanics (which, not coincidentally force multiplies the "heavy GM mediation/Force is required to make this game work" angle), where GM latitude is at its utter apex (in all the history of TTRPGs) and subordination or outright ignoring action resolution mechanics/outcomes so the GM can curate the play experience at their discretion is the most fundamental aspect and energy of play. </p><p></p><p>Quite literally, those 3 systems probably have more to do with why The Forge was created than anything else.</p><p></p><p>If you look at a modern indie game like Blades in the Dark, you see, the utter antithesis of the GMing and design ethos of games like AD&D 2e, CoC, and VtM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7630192, member: 6696971"] [COLOR=#FFF8DC][I][COLOR=#CCCCCC] [/COLOR][/I][/COLOR] Only very, very tacitly following this thread, but this caught my eye in a "what in the world...?" sort of way. I think this may in fact be a source of dissonance that you and I have in some of these conversations, particularly where it pertains to The Forge and, more specifically, "system matters." The most fundamental core mechanic of VtM and White Wolf games is "The Golden Rule" or "there are no rules" or, apropos, "system doesn't matter." @[I][B][U][URL="https://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582"]pemerton[/URL][/U][/B][/I] is referring to AD&D 2e above (surely), not 1e. AD&D 2e went all-in on this ethos (unlike OD&D, 1e, and B/X). CoC does as well. The lifeblood of those three gaming systems are overwhelmingly GM Force and opacity, inadequacy, incoherency, or impotency of action resolutions mechanics (which, not coincidentally force multiplies the "heavy GM mediation/Force is required to make this game work" angle), where GM latitude is at its utter apex (in all the history of TTRPGs) and subordination or outright ignoring action resolution mechanics/outcomes so the GM can curate the play experience at their discretion is the most fundamental aspect and energy of play. Quite literally, those 3 systems probably have more to do with why The Forge was created than anything else. If you look at a modern indie game like Blades in the Dark, you see, the utter antithesis of the GMing and design ethos of games like AD&D 2e, CoC, and VtM. [/QUOTE]
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