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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7630847" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I'm no big fan of GNS theory, mostly because bringing it up tends to be like invoking Tolkien in RPG discussions - it's the geek version of Godwinning a thread and more time gets spent debating the theory than actually using it. </p><p></p><p>But, [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION], I do think you are way off base here. GNS theory is not exclusionary at all. It's, as [MENTION=81242]Lost Soul[/MENTION] above pointed out very concisely, simply a descriptive system for talking about the differences between RPG's. </p><p></p><p>It's what you point to when someone calls 4e boardgamey or videogamey. You can actually point to how 4e leverages so many of the mechanics - page 42 being a prime example, plus the transparency of the mechanics themselves - in service to creating games where moral dilemmas are far more important than, say, the kill and loot cycle of heavily gamist 3e where the point of killing monsters is to gain loot and xp to let you kill bigger monsters. </p><p></p><p>Note, D&D, at least in Forge terms, is not really a good example of pure forms. You can certainly play 4e as a pure gamist game where you kill your way to the top. Absolutely can. And, frankly, you can nudge it pretty close to simulationist play with a few twists of a couple of dials. D&D is such a huge game that it's more about how a given table uses the mechanics than what the game itself is pushing.</p><p></p><p>Which differentiates D&D from most other RPG's. Most other RPG's are interested in providing pretty singular experiences. Everyone playing Call of Cthulhu has a pretty good idea of what's coming when they sit down to play. It's not like you're suddenly going to venture off into starting a business and the mechanics of running a company in CoC. Which you certainly could do in any version of D&D. </p><p></p><p>But, claiming that Forge criticisms are deceptive or even obfuscatory is not really valid. The criticisms are pretty straight forward for anyone with even a passing familiarity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7630847, member: 22779"] I'm no big fan of GNS theory, mostly because bringing it up tends to be like invoking Tolkien in RPG discussions - it's the geek version of Godwinning a thread and more time gets spent debating the theory than actually using it. But, [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION], I do think you are way off base here. GNS theory is not exclusionary at all. It's, as [MENTION=81242]Lost Soul[/MENTION] above pointed out very concisely, simply a descriptive system for talking about the differences between RPG's. It's what you point to when someone calls 4e boardgamey or videogamey. You can actually point to how 4e leverages so many of the mechanics - page 42 being a prime example, plus the transparency of the mechanics themselves - in service to creating games where moral dilemmas are far more important than, say, the kill and loot cycle of heavily gamist 3e where the point of killing monsters is to gain loot and xp to let you kill bigger monsters. Note, D&D, at least in Forge terms, is not really a good example of pure forms. You can certainly play 4e as a pure gamist game where you kill your way to the top. Absolutely can. And, frankly, you can nudge it pretty close to simulationist play with a few twists of a couple of dials. D&D is such a huge game that it's more about how a given table uses the mechanics than what the game itself is pushing. Which differentiates D&D from most other RPG's. Most other RPG's are interested in providing pretty singular experiences. Everyone playing Call of Cthulhu has a pretty good idea of what's coming when they sit down to play. It's not like you're suddenly going to venture off into starting a business and the mechanics of running a company in CoC. Which you certainly could do in any version of D&D. But, claiming that Forge criticisms are deceptive or even obfuscatory is not really valid. The criticisms are pretty straight forward for anyone with even a passing familiarity. [/QUOTE]
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