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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7632155" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>So why are you convinced I haven't experienced Narrativist play, and will only accept pulling a little illusionism in /certain systems/ as evidence one could pull some narrtivist wool over the players eyes?</p><p></p><p>It seems (and, that's just my impression, I know this medium can make such impressions very iffy) like it quickly slides from analytic framework, to classifications, to monolithic divisions, to getting judgmental about not just systems, but people. </p><p></p><p>Even when we're trying very hard not to go there.</p><p></p><p>… I'm not so sure I'm convinced - I'm not so sure exactly what it is I'm not convinced about, though. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>The definition of narrativism seems arbitrarily narrow, as if to exclude games that clearly intend collective storytelling as their thing. For what seem to be presented as exhaustive classifications, that doesn't feel right. </p><p></p><p>Either narrativism is way off, or the idea that only certain games constitute narrativist play is.</p><p></p><p>::shrug::</p><p></p><p>This might help me see the distinction: what about the other-way round? Could you believe an illusionist (npi) GM has run a game that looked/felt to the players like it was a planned adventure in a 'simulationist' (absurd though that label feels to type, given that it simulates /nothing/ that can be checked for accuracy) style, but was actually picking up and running with their ideas to create a narrative that, in the end, surprised him, even as he presented the climax like it had been what he was working towards all along?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7632155, member: 996"] So why are you convinced I haven't experienced Narrativist play, and will only accept pulling a little illusionism in /certain systems/ as evidence one could pull some narrtivist wool over the players eyes? It seems (and, that's just my impression, I know this medium can make such impressions very iffy) like it quickly slides from analytic framework, to classifications, to monolithic divisions, to getting judgmental about not just systems, but people. Even when we're trying very hard not to go there. … I'm not so sure I'm convinced - I'm not so sure exactly what it is I'm not convinced about, though. ;) The definition of narrativism seems arbitrarily narrow, as if to exclude games that clearly intend collective storytelling as their thing. For what seem to be presented as exhaustive classifications, that doesn't feel right. Either narrativism is way off, or the idea that only certain games constitute narrativist play is. ::shrug:: This might help me see the distinction: what about the other-way round? Could you believe an illusionist (npi) GM has run a game that looked/felt to the players like it was a planned adventure in a 'simulationist' (absurd though that label feels to type, given that it simulates /nothing/ that can be checked for accuracy) style, but was actually picking up and running with their ideas to create a narrative that, in the end, surprised him, even as he presented the climax like it had been what he was working towards all along? [/QUOTE]
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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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