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General Tabletop Discussion
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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7635444" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>I see some of 4e in PF2, but that's because they were both attempts to fix the same inherent problems with 3.5. For nigh unto 20 years, the problems with the 3.x/d20 mechanics have shown themselves again and again. The inherent unevenness of the Bab/Save progression, the dependency the mainline 6 magic items, monsters using PC math for creation. The escalation of bonuses, the bloat of options, LFQW, static combats, etc. </p><p></p><p>So of course, 4e and PF are attempted to fix the same problems; you fix the uneven math progression by streamlining everything into a single progress line. You reduce magic item dependency to a small (3) sets of static bonuses, and then use some cooldown method for other magic items. You curb the math so that it flows easier. You roll different customization abilities into selectable abilities gained every level from a variety of siloed abilities. You fix the action economy to allow for more fluid movement and lose full-round actions. You give monsters types/roles and use different math to create them. You make most magic and other abilities not scale by character level. </p><p></p><p>The big difference is that Paizo had a great window to see why 4e failed and what 5e did right, so they avoided some of those pitfalls, like forcing all classes into the ADEU structure rather than some form of spell-slot casting and other resource mechanics. It will be interesting to see if Paizo managed to answer the problems of 3e better than WotC initially did.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 7635444, member: 7635"] I see some of 4e in PF2, but that's because they were both attempts to fix the same inherent problems with 3.5. For nigh unto 20 years, the problems with the 3.x/d20 mechanics have shown themselves again and again. The inherent unevenness of the Bab/Save progression, the dependency the mainline 6 magic items, monsters using PC math for creation. The escalation of bonuses, the bloat of options, LFQW, static combats, etc. So of course, 4e and PF are attempted to fix the same problems; you fix the uneven math progression by streamlining everything into a single progress line. You reduce magic item dependency to a small (3) sets of static bonuses, and then use some cooldown method for other magic items. You curb the math so that it flows easier. You roll different customization abilities into selectable abilities gained every level from a variety of siloed abilities. You fix the action economy to allow for more fluid movement and lose full-round actions. You give monsters types/roles and use different math to create them. You make most magic and other abilities not scale by character level. The big difference is that Paizo had a great window to see why 4e failed and what 5e did right, so they avoided some of those pitfalls, like forcing all classes into the ADEU structure rather than some form of spell-slot casting and other resource mechanics. It will be interesting to see if Paizo managed to answer the problems of 3e better than WotC initially did. [/QUOTE]
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