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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="FatR" data-source="post: 7635511" data-attributes="member: 6999688"><p>PF2 cannot be Paizo's 4E, because 4E had actual design goals. Of course those design goals were dubious (make a game that CharOp boards' regulars would like) or unrealistic (we want World of Warcraft audience), and their execution was bungled, but at least 4E tried to do something with the system, besides making all the mechanics different for the sake of selling all the books again.</p><p></p><p>PF2 absolutely doesn't. The whole project reeks of a cynical attempt to restart the supplement threadmill. As far as I can tell, no one can explain what selling points of PF2 are supposed to be, in what ways it is better than PF1, what actual problems it fixes, or even what made-up problems it fixes better than existing versions of DnD. It is one of the most complicated, rules-hyperheavy RPGs I've ever read, and more of the complexity than before is upfront and unavoidable, rather than being optional (by all accounts the system wasn't reworked entirely since beta, therefore this observation will equally apply to the final product), so it cannot claim to be "streamlining" anyting. Between "are you kidding me?" levels of complexity that a new player must confront before play even starts, and the fact that it is even more self-referential than other versions of DnD, it has zero appeal to anyone who is not a hardcore DnD/PF fan. It tries to cram itself into the same weird niche of "kitchen sink high fantasy with magic galore, but options available to players are straightjacketed to the point that at any level GM will have no problems railroading through the same sort of dungeons they crawled at level 1, only with bigger numbers" that DnD tried to starting with 4E, consequently even if it had been less incestous, it still would have little hope to actually connect with the sort of stories people nowadays may imagine when they thing of high-powered high fantasy. </p><p></p><p>Oh, and the art so far is not that good either. Given than good art was, IMO one of the two big factors behind PF success, that is a big problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FatR, post: 7635511, member: 6999688"] PF2 cannot be Paizo's 4E, because 4E had actual design goals. Of course those design goals were dubious (make a game that CharOp boards' regulars would like) or unrealistic (we want World of Warcraft audience), and their execution was bungled, but at least 4E tried to do something with the system, besides making all the mechanics different for the sake of selling all the books again. PF2 absolutely doesn't. The whole project reeks of a cynical attempt to restart the supplement threadmill. As far as I can tell, no one can explain what selling points of PF2 are supposed to be, in what ways it is better than PF1, what actual problems it fixes, or even what made-up problems it fixes better than existing versions of DnD. It is one of the most complicated, rules-hyperheavy RPGs I've ever read, and more of the complexity than before is upfront and unavoidable, rather than being optional (by all accounts the system wasn't reworked entirely since beta, therefore this observation will equally apply to the final product), so it cannot claim to be "streamlining" anyting. Between "are you kidding me?" levels of complexity that a new player must confront before play even starts, and the fact that it is even more self-referential than other versions of DnD, it has zero appeal to anyone who is not a hardcore DnD/PF fan. It tries to cram itself into the same weird niche of "kitchen sink high fantasy with magic galore, but options available to players are straightjacketed to the point that at any level GM will have no problems railroading through the same sort of dungeons they crawled at level 1, only with bigger numbers" that DnD tried to starting with 4E, consequently even if it had been less incestous, it still would have little hope to actually connect with the sort of stories people nowadays may imagine when they thing of high-powered high fantasy. Oh, and the art so far is not that good either. Given than good art was, IMO one of the two big factors behind PF success, that is a big problem. [/QUOTE]
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