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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7636827" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>Which was my point. 3.x PCs had a lot of moving parts to them (race, class(es), feats, skills, spells, magic items, etc) all of which NPCs and monsters emulated nearly 1:1. It lead to some real PITA moments.</p><p></p><p>For example; creatures would have "hidden" abilities lost in the feat section. One example I recall vividly came from Libris Mortis. There was a creature there called a Slaughter Wright. It was a CR 8 monster that had some normal special abilities (energy drain, create spawn, etc) but in its feats section, it listed the following: Daunting Presence†, Death Master†, Eviscerator†, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness†, Power Attack</p><p></p><p>Most of those feats were listed in Chapter 2 of the same book. I dare you to tell me what they did without flipping to the feat chapter in combat to look at them. As it turns out, Daunting Presence allowed you make a foe Shaken (Fear effect) as an action, Death Master makes your foe Shaken on a crit, and Eviscerator makes a target's allies Shaken when you crit them. Basically, It had three abilities that forced foes to save or be shaken that are not mentioned in monster's stat block anywhere are required the DM to look at the feat line and then read what the feat did in another section of the book. If you didn't, the monster lost a whole important method of its attack options. </p><p></p><p>Feats were great when you are a PC and wanting extra abilities and powers, but on a monster, all three of those feats should have been a special ability in the monsters stat block where the DM could easily see them. Not hidden in the feat line with an asterisk. Monsters rarely needed feats but had to have them because everything got feats every 3rd (or 2nd for PF) HD. </p><p></p><p>The other example is magic items. 3e required an NPC buy x amount of treasure to keep up with PC math. That gold didn't buy interesting items like boots of the north or folding boats, it bought +1 weapons, armor, shields, rings of protection, cloaks or resistance, and stat-boosting gloves, belts, amulets and cloaks. Most of which was inferior anyway, leading the infamous "bag of holding full of +1 swords to be sold for 1k a pop" problem. </p><p></p><p>Both of these were problems came from forcing NPCs and monsters to be be built like PCs rather than allow them to be built using math that challenges the PC without resorting fiddly mechanics and long-winded stat blocks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 7636827, member: 7635"] Which was my point. 3.x PCs had a lot of moving parts to them (race, class(es), feats, skills, spells, magic items, etc) all of which NPCs and monsters emulated nearly 1:1. It lead to some real PITA moments. For example; creatures would have "hidden" abilities lost in the feat section. One example I recall vividly came from Libris Mortis. There was a creature there called a Slaughter Wright. It was a CR 8 monster that had some normal special abilities (energy drain, create spawn, etc) but in its feats section, it listed the following: Daunting Presence†, Death Master†, Eviscerator†, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness†, Power Attack Most of those feats were listed in Chapter 2 of the same book. I dare you to tell me what they did without flipping to the feat chapter in combat to look at them. As it turns out, Daunting Presence allowed you make a foe Shaken (Fear effect) as an action, Death Master makes your foe Shaken on a crit, and Eviscerator makes a target's allies Shaken when you crit them. Basically, It had three abilities that forced foes to save or be shaken that are not mentioned in monster's stat block anywhere are required the DM to look at the feat line and then read what the feat did in another section of the book. If you didn't, the monster lost a whole important method of its attack options. Feats were great when you are a PC and wanting extra abilities and powers, but on a monster, all three of those feats should have been a special ability in the monsters stat block where the DM could easily see them. Not hidden in the feat line with an asterisk. Monsters rarely needed feats but had to have them because everything got feats every 3rd (or 2nd for PF) HD. The other example is magic items. 3e required an NPC buy x amount of treasure to keep up with PC math. That gold didn't buy interesting items like boots of the north or folding boats, it bought +1 weapons, armor, shields, rings of protection, cloaks or resistance, and stat-boosting gloves, belts, amulets and cloaks. Most of which was inferior anyway, leading the infamous "bag of holding full of +1 swords to be sold for 1k a pop" problem. Both of these were problems came from forcing NPCs and monsters to be be built like PCs rather than allow them to be built using math that challenges the PC without resorting fiddly mechanics and long-winded stat blocks. [/QUOTE]
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