Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7641395" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>It is not. The fighter remained the most popular class in the game, even when it was out-damaged by Raging Barbarians, CoDzilla, and a host of other things.</p><p></p><p>The mechanics of the fighter have changed, sometimes radically, in each edition, yet it's popularity has been a constant.</p><p>It is the familiar, relatable concept of the archetypal hero, that's behind the class's enduring, Class-Tier-defying popularity.</p><p></p><p>Arguably, the reason there's such adamant insistence that the fighter remain a trap option /is/ it's popularity. Were the Druid mad a trap option, people simply wouldn't play it, but the archetype fighting hero is just too appealing, so system masters get to dominate play by picking a less popular, Tier 1 class, like, oh, Druid, and new players either eventually stop playing, gratefully accept it the way the proletariat accepts exploitation by the monied classes, or graduate to system mastery, themselves.</p><p></p><p> And that was very much about mechanics and class balance. 4e eliminated LFQW and made classes better balanced than ever - if still far from perfect, with fighters still sucking out of combat, and casters still having a non-trivial edge in versatility in & out of combat - and was marked for death by a segment if the fanbase that would not tolerate that, touching off the edition war.</p><p></p><p>5e returned to LFQW and more moderated (or at least, obfuscated) caster superiority, and is permitted to seek new players in relative peace.</p><p></p><p> Thing us, PF never attracted many new players, it attracted resentful D&D players.</p><p></p><p>No non-D&D TTRPG has ever attracted a lot of new players to the hobby - the closest claimant might be Storyteller in the 90s, but it pulled in new players on the LARP side, where it was dominant.</p><p></p><p>And the supply of resentful D&D players is pretty limited, especially now that 5e has put all the sacred cows back in the pasture.</p><p></p><p> Ouch.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7641395, member: 996"] It is not. The fighter remained the most popular class in the game, even when it was out-damaged by Raging Barbarians, CoDzilla, and a host of other things. The mechanics of the fighter have changed, sometimes radically, in each edition, yet it's popularity has been a constant. It is the familiar, relatable concept of the archetypal hero, that's behind the class's enduring, Class-Tier-defying popularity. Arguably, the reason there's such adamant insistence that the fighter remain a trap option /is/ it's popularity. Were the Druid mad a trap option, people simply wouldn't play it, but the archetype fighting hero is just too appealing, so system masters get to dominate play by picking a less popular, Tier 1 class, like, oh, Druid, and new players either eventually stop playing, gratefully accept it the way the proletariat accepts exploitation by the monied classes, or graduate to system mastery, themselves. And that was very much about mechanics and class balance. 4e eliminated LFQW and made classes better balanced than ever - if still far from perfect, with fighters still sucking out of combat, and casters still having a non-trivial edge in versatility in & out of combat - and was marked for death by a segment if the fanbase that would not tolerate that, touching off the edition war. 5e returned to LFQW and more moderated (or at least, obfuscated) caster superiority, and is permitted to seek new players in relative peace. Thing us, PF never attracted many new players, it attracted resentful D&D players. No non-D&D TTRPG has ever attracted a lot of new players to the hobby - the closest claimant might be Storyteller in the 90s, but it pulled in new players on the LARP side, where it was dominant. And the supply of resentful D&D players is pretty limited, especially now that 5e has put all the sacred cows back in the pasture. Ouch. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
Top