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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7641430" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>LFQW is not just a fancy way if saying "Wizards rule, fighters drool!" <u>LFQW is a structural feature of class designs</u> in every instance of D&D, except 4e AEDU classes.</p><p></p><p>4e /completely eliminated LFQW/. Everyone gained limited-use resources at the same rate, all of them scaled at the same rate. Those resources, along with class features, were very different, but they weren't progressing at different rates, which is what LFQW describes.</p><p></p><p>What it didn't do was perfectly balance classes. Fighters were still the worst out of combat, especially compared to Rogues & Rangers. Wizards were still given a few too many toys, and were still over-versatile. Even if the gaps were a lot smaller, they were still there.</p><p></p><p>That's not LFQW. </p><p></p><p> That TTRPGs /are/ cooperative games isn't always an easy insight. D&D grew out of competitive wargames, and the early game retained that quality, with PCs more like rivals cooperating for survival, while competing for the greatest gains.</p><p></p><p>Fairness - same options and rules applying to everyone - is enough in a competitive game, because (not too obviously-)bad options just add to the skill factor. Balance is a higher bar, and more important to cooperative games.</p><p></p><p> 5e wasn't a fix-up of 3e, it followed 4e, which had fixed a lot if perennial issues. So 5e was a matter of re-breaking solved issues, so that play would be channeled back into the familiar dynamics that coped with, masked, or exploited those issues.</p><p> Ding!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>RE PF2:Wasn't that the case for the Heighten metamagic feat in 3.x/PF1? It raised the save DC by 1 per level higher?</p><p></p><p> Sounds like 5e...</p><p></p><p> Those actually do sound a bit like 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7641430, member: 996"] LFQW is not just a fancy way if saying "Wizards rule, fighters drool!" [U]LFQW is a structural feature of class designs[/u] in every instance of D&D, except 4e AEDU classes. 4e /completely eliminated LFQW/. Everyone gained limited-use resources at the same rate, all of them scaled at the same rate. Those resources, along with class features, were very different, but they weren't progressing at different rates, which is what LFQW describes. What it didn't do was perfectly balance classes. Fighters were still the worst out of combat, especially compared to Rogues & Rangers. Wizards were still given a few too many toys, and were still over-versatile. Even if the gaps were a lot smaller, they were still there. That's not LFQW. That TTRPGs /are/ cooperative games isn't always an easy insight. D&D grew out of competitive wargames, and the early game retained that quality, with PCs more like rivals cooperating for survival, while competing for the greatest gains. Fairness - same options and rules applying to everyone - is enough in a competitive game, because (not too obviously-)bad options just add to the skill factor. Balance is a higher bar, and more important to cooperative games. 5e wasn't a fix-up of 3e, it followed 4e, which had fixed a lot if perennial issues. So 5e was a matter of re-breaking solved issues, so that play would be channeled back into the familiar dynamics that coped with, masked, or exploited those issues. Ding! RE PF2:Wasn't that the case for the Heighten metamagic feat in 3.x/PF1? It raised the save DC by 1 per level higher? Sounds like 5e... Those actually do sound a bit like 4e. [/QUOTE]
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