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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7641811" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>What I have never seen you do, is characterize 5E in actually positive terms. And I have never seen you attempt a run-down of the differences between 3E and 5E. Your analysis is always 4E-centric, and always describing 5E as something that goes the wrong way design-wise.</p><p></p><p>I find that approach wholly unproductive.</p><p></p><p>You will never understand the profound upgrade of 3E that 5E represents with that point of view.</p><p></p><p>You need to understand that the D&D community by and large like D&D the way d20 presented it. Some could tolerate its annoyances and idiosyncrasies and stuck with Pathfinder, the latest model of the d20 engine.</p><p></p><p>But most have moved on to 5E. Not everyone realizes what a fundamental upgrade that represents. (Lots have never even seen 3E!)</p><p></p><p>You're correct that 5E isn't popular because it does something better than 3E. But that completely missed the point:</p><p></p><p>5E is a thorough upgrade of... not the 4E way of playing D&D, but the 3E way of playing. It is also simple and beginner friendly. This is why it is popular.</p><p></p><p>Now, the upgrade from 3E does enter the picture when we're talking about switching to a Pathfinder game. For instance, if you switch from 5E to PF1, it represents a clean downgrade, where so many things fixed by 5E again rear their ugly heads.</p><p></p><p>But we're not talking about PF1. We're talking about PF2.</p><p></p><p>And here is my point: </p><p></p><p>No way that game will be successful without a considerable interest from 5E gamers, simply because that's where the market is.</p><p></p><p>And no way 5E gamers will be interested in a game should it throw them back into the dark bad days of LFQW, complex NPC building and more. These gamers might not even know D&D used to be that Byzantine. Boy are they up for a rude awakening if the indications Paizo hasn't learned from 5E are true!</p><p></p><p>Now note, Tony, how I don't need to focus on 4E at all to make this train of thought.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7641811, member: 12731"] What I have never seen you do, is characterize 5E in actually positive terms. And I have never seen you attempt a run-down of the differences between 3E and 5E. Your analysis is always 4E-centric, and always describing 5E as something that goes the wrong way design-wise. I find that approach wholly unproductive. You will never understand the profound upgrade of 3E that 5E represents with that point of view. You need to understand that the D&D community by and large like D&D the way d20 presented it. Some could tolerate its annoyances and idiosyncrasies and stuck with Pathfinder, the latest model of the d20 engine. But most have moved on to 5E. Not everyone realizes what a fundamental upgrade that represents. (Lots have never even seen 3E!) You're correct that 5E isn't popular because it does something better than 3E. But that completely missed the point: 5E is a thorough upgrade of... not the 4E way of playing D&D, but the 3E way of playing. It is also simple and beginner friendly. This is why it is popular. Now, the upgrade from 3E does enter the picture when we're talking about switching to a Pathfinder game. For instance, if you switch from 5E to PF1, it represents a clean downgrade, where so many things fixed by 5E again rear their ugly heads. But we're not talking about PF1. We're talking about PF2. And here is my point: No way that game will be successful without a considerable interest from 5E gamers, simply because that's where the market is. And no way 5E gamers will be interested in a game should it throw them back into the dark bad days of LFQW, complex NPC building and more. These gamers might not even know D&D used to be that Byzantine. Boy are they up for a rude awakening if the indications Paizo hasn't learned from 5E are true! Now note, Tony, how I don't need to focus on 4E at all to make this train of thought. [/QUOTE]
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Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?
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