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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7642689" data-attributes="member: 996">Meh, no RPG really /forces/ reliance on a play surface.  Actually, it took me a while to divine why people were claiming 5e 'supports TotM,' - I mean, 13A /actually supports/ TotM, there are rules that specifically facilitate that mode of play, making it easier to run and taking advantage of it, and 5e doesn't have those sorts of rules.  But I finally did manage to grok the claim:  5e doesn't include rules that facilitate TotM, rather, it omits rules that leverage having a play surface.  For instance, in 3e, you had templates so you could easily (relatively) snap an AE to the grid and see who's in it - didn't work without a grid, but was darn convenient when you were using one.  5e doesn't.  It has AEs that are the same size and notional shape as they were in 5e, but no tools to facilitate using them on a grid - so grid or no grid, it's about the same:  ergo you don't need the grid.So, like, if you go all SARN-FU on 4e, or - like I did in the 90s - run Champions! without a battlemat, you loose some precision & convenience, and things that are kinda cool, like slides or Knockback or the like when you have that precision are sidelined or de-emphasized, so you 'loose' that coolness.  5e, OTOH, omits such things more or less entirely (except for the odd spell, of course), so you don't miss them when you play TotM - because you also don't have them when you use the grid.  Less is more! Ok, actually, it's less, but it's a less that isn't any less than the less you started with because you didn't have the more that becomes less when you don't use the thing that gives you more.  More or less.   So, to maintain the pretense that I have any business being in this thread:  how does PF2 handle using play surfaces or the lack thereof?  Scale inches? (like 1e)  People tubes? (like GURPS)  Trigonometry? (like 5e) Teseracts?  (j/k)  Range Bands?  (like 13A) ...Or, oh, IDK - 5' Squares? (like PF1?  If so, how do you count diagonals?  I mean, that's, like a burning question, how do you count diagonals, the fate of your game could rest on the right answer...)</blockquote>

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