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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5402404" data-attributes="member: 65637">I have admittingly not played LotRO, but I would not be surprised if they, like WoW, did not have a set &quot;crowd control&quot; archtype, but rather if most classes had a form of crowd control.No, they aren't.&nbsp; Argh.MMO mechanics 101.Taunts work in two ways:&nbsp; One, it causes the monster to immidiately attack you and only you if it succeeds (There were a few 3.5 classes that had a vs will save effect to do the same, 4e has no such mechanic).&nbsp; Two, monsters have a &quot;threat&quot; stat for each player, and whatever player has the highest &quot;threat&quot; is what the monsters go after.&nbsp; The taunt power causes the class to raise their threat considerably, ensuring they remain on top.&nbsp; Again, there is no 4e mechanic like that.Marks work by giving your enemies disincentives to fight others.&nbsp; They can still ignore you.&nbsp; In fact, that was one of the big problems with the Battlemind class, that he just wasn't sticky enough, and monsters could just saunter right past him.&nbsp; 4e marks are in no way similar to MMO taunts.How is any edition of D&amp;D any different?In every edition of D&amp;D from the very starts, classes have been defined as a bucket of powers.&nbsp; In 3.5 fighters are &quot;gets a feat every other level, has high BAB, high HD, high fort.&quot;&nbsp; There is no special power that lets you roleplay a fighter in 3.5 different from 4e.&nbsp; What about rogues?&nbsp; What unique &quot;roleplay&quot; power does a rogue get that isn't in 4e?&nbsp; Is it the ability to pick pockets and disarm traps?&nbsp; Because they have that in both editions.&nbsp; Is it sneaking around?&nbsp; That's in both editions, too.This is a non-argument, because there is nothing in 4e that causes you to roleplay less.&nbsp; &quot;I use my power&quot; is no less imaginative then &quot;I full attack.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ProfessorCirno, post: 5402404, member: 65637"] I have admittingly not played LotRO, but I would not be surprised if they, like WoW, did not have a set "crowd control" archtype, but rather if most classes had a form of crowd control. No, they aren't. [I]Argh.[/I] MMO mechanics 101. Taunts work in two ways: One, it causes the monster to immidiately attack you and only you if it succeeds (There were a few 3.5 classes that had a vs will save effect to do the same, 4e has no such mechanic). Two, monsters have a "threat" stat for each player, and whatever player has the highest "threat" is what the monsters go after. The taunt power causes the class to raise their threat considerably, ensuring they remain on top. Again, there is no 4e mechanic like that. Marks work by giving your enemies disincentives to fight others. [I]They can still ignore you[/I]. In fact, that was one of the big problems with the Battlemind class, that he just wasn't sticky enough, and monsters could just saunter right past him. 4e marks are in [I]no way[/I] similar to MMO taunts. How is any edition of D&D any different? In every edition of D&D from the very starts, classes have been defined as a bucket of powers. In 3.5 fighters are "gets a feat every other level, has high BAB, high HD, high fort." There is no special power that lets you roleplay a fighter in 3.5 different from 4e. What about rogues? What unique "roleplay" power does a rogue get that isn't in 4e? Is it the ability to pick pockets and disarm traps? Because they have that in both editions. Is it sneaking around? That's in both editions, too. This is a non-argument, because there is [I]nothing in 4e that causes you to roleplay less[/I]. "I use my power" is no less imaginative then "I full attack." [/QUOTE]

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