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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Is Pathfinder Combat As Slow as 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 5403733" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>I don't want perfect realism either. Otherwise I probably wouldn't even like <em>Pathfinder</em>. So that's probably not the best description, but <em>Pathfinder</em> and 3E did try to provide rules for simulating combat actions that anyone should be able to take in the real world. Which was a step in the right direction for mechanical design.</p><p></p><p>More of what I want is for abilities to make sense and work within the confines of the fantasy material I've read. I don't want balance concerns overly involved in game design. I want faithful adherence to the fantasy material I grew up enjoying to be the primary material by which game design is made.</p><p></p><p>In every edition of D&D I've ever loved, I always felt the game designers were inspired by fantasy books and movies and history. It was incorporated in a fantastical, heroic, and unique fashion. But you still felt like they were building mechanics creatively and drawing from the fantastical sources that inspired a generation of fantasy lovers to play a game that simulated all those great books and movies they read and watched and incorporated the elements of history those of us who love the ancient world enjoyed reading about like wearing armor, fighting with ancient weapons in the manner they fought, and the like.</p><p></p><p>New game designers seem more inspired by MMORPGs and anime. That may suit what players like you are looking for because your inspiration for fantasy gaming may be far different from my inspiration. When I was growing up there were no MMORPGs, fantasy video games were in their infancy and nowhere near what they are now, and anime was <em>Starblazers</em>. I think that is part of what separates the older generation from the newer generation of D&D enthusiasts.</p><p></p><p>All my fantasy inspiration comes from Arthurian Legend, <em>Lord of the Rings</em>, all the strange fantasy and horror books made by Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, H.P. Lovecraft, and the plethora of fantasy authors of that time and prior, and reading history books about ancient Rome, Europe, and Japan with knightly full plate and chain armor, simple sword play and battle without a lot of bells and whistles, and some martial arts worked in along with all the legendary trappings and myth surrounding the history of those areas. </p><p></p><p>I felt like the D&D game designers up to 3rd edition were similarly inspired. 3.5 and now <em>Pathfinder</em> incorporated mechanical advances inspired by other games like skills and feats. That I liked because the fluff material inspiration was still the same even though the mechanics were advanced. That is what I like about <em>Pathfinder</em>. </p><p></p><p>James Jacobs and Erik Mona and their crew still seem like they draw inspiration from fantasy books and movies and couple it with a desire to advance the game mechanics to provide more options and verisimilitude to combat as well as make the game more streamlined. Which is what drove me to <em>Pathfinder</em> over any concerns over combat speed. Though <em>Pathfinder</em> did greatly improve combat speed with their CMB/CMD mechanic, which comes up quite often. I was happy for that. That was a nice mechanical advance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 5403733, member: 5834"] I don't want perfect realism either. Otherwise I probably wouldn't even like [i]Pathfinder[/i]. So that's probably not the best description, but [i]Pathfinder[/i] and 3E did try to provide rules for simulating combat actions that anyone should be able to take in the real world. Which was a step in the right direction for mechanical design. More of what I want is for abilities to make sense and work within the confines of the fantasy material I've read. I don't want balance concerns overly involved in game design. I want faithful adherence to the fantasy material I grew up enjoying to be the primary material by which game design is made. In every edition of D&D I've ever loved, I always felt the game designers were inspired by fantasy books and movies and history. It was incorporated in a fantastical, heroic, and unique fashion. But you still felt like they were building mechanics creatively and drawing from the fantastical sources that inspired a generation of fantasy lovers to play a game that simulated all those great books and movies they read and watched and incorporated the elements of history those of us who love the ancient world enjoyed reading about like wearing armor, fighting with ancient weapons in the manner they fought, and the like. New game designers seem more inspired by MMORPGs and anime. That may suit what players like you are looking for because your inspiration for fantasy gaming may be far different from my inspiration. When I was growing up there were no MMORPGs, fantasy video games were in their infancy and nowhere near what they are now, and anime was [i]Starblazers[/i]. I think that is part of what separates the older generation from the newer generation of D&D enthusiasts. All my fantasy inspiration comes from Arthurian Legend, [i]Lord of the Rings[/i], all the strange fantasy and horror books made by Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, H.P. Lovecraft, and the plethora of fantasy authors of that time and prior, and reading history books about ancient Rome, Europe, and Japan with knightly full plate and chain armor, simple sword play and battle without a lot of bells and whistles, and some martial arts worked in along with all the legendary trappings and myth surrounding the history of those areas. I felt like the D&D game designers up to 3rd edition were similarly inspired. 3.5 and now [i]Pathfinder[/i] incorporated mechanical advances inspired by other games like skills and feats. That I liked because the fluff material inspiration was still the same even though the mechanics were advanced. That is what I like about [i]Pathfinder[/i]. James Jacobs and Erik Mona and their crew still seem like they draw inspiration from fantasy books and movies and couple it with a desire to advance the game mechanics to provide more options and verisimilitude to combat as well as make the game more streamlined. Which is what drove me to [i]Pathfinder[/i] over any concerns over combat speed. Though [i]Pathfinder[/i] did greatly improve combat speed with their CMB/CMD mechanic, which comes up quite often. I was happy for that. That was a nice mechanical advance. [/QUOTE]
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