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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9824927" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Alright, from my own stuff playing around in Google Sheets, I have determined:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There are 65 different arrays which are valid under 27 PB. I am, of course, ignoring any array which could be valid but hasn't spent all the points yet.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of these, only three arrays fail the "at least one stat 14+" test. They are: {10,13,13,13,13,13}, {11,12,13,13,13,13}, {12,12,12,13,13,13}. Essentially, the maximally-evenly-distributed array, and two slight variations.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 62 arrays that meet this requirement, 44 meet the further requirement of having at least one other 14+, and of that group, 29 have it so that one (or more) of those values is 15.</li> </ul>Given we have either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 from background (or race, in 5.0), we can then look at those 29 arrays which have those solid baselines and try to ensure that we have either 3 odd stats (which can then be increased to even with three +1s) or 1 odd stat. Others have noted that there can be value in an odd stat if you know your character will reach level 4, but...well. Given my personal experience with 5e, I will lean in a more conservative direction and assume that we want to avoid odd stats if possible.Applying all of these requirements (at least one 15, at least one further 14 or 15, exactly 3 or 1 odd stat before BG/race bonus), there are 11 arrays you can generate with 27 point buy. If we relax the "at least one 15", aka allowing arrays with two 14s, we get another nine arrays. They are, respectively, the following groups:[SPOILER="Various Arrays"]{8, 8, 8, 15, 15, 15}{8, 8, 12, 14, 14, 15}{8, 9, 11, 14, 14, 15}{8, 10, 10, 14, 14, 15}{9, 9, 10, 14, 14, 15}{8, 8, 12, 13, 15, 15}{8, 9, 12, 12, 15, 15}{8, 10, 10, 13, 15, 15}{8, 10, 11, 12, 15, 15}{9, 10, 10, 12, 15, 15}{10, 10, 10, 11, 15, 15}{8, 11, 13, 13, 14, 14}{8, 12, 12, 13, 14, 14}{9, 10, 13, 13, 14, 14}{9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14}{9, 12, 12, 12, 14, 14}{10, 10, 12, 13, 14, 14}{10, 11, 11, 13, 14, 14}{10, 11, 12, 12, 14, 14}{11, 11, 11, 12, 14, 14}[/SPOILER]So, out of the 65 arrays that you can validly make in the first place, 11 of them are "great", and roughly 20 of them are "solid", as far as character optimization is concerned. Very few arrays (only three) are "bad", in the sense that they don't allow even the possibility of starting with a 16+ in any stat, and rely heavily on actively trying to spread your points out as much as possible and require you to have a crapload of odd stats.Given players will naturally be more likely to choose even stats over odd ones, except insofar as they can bump an odd stat up to an even one using BG/race bonuses, it's unlikely any player would accidentally stumble into those arrays. I think it is reasonable to simply exclude them from the overall discussion.If you do exclude those three arrays, then the remaining 62 options are...I mean obviously they're not absolutely perfectly balanced, because perfection is an impossible standard outside of very boring stuff. But they're pretty reasonable. You're deciding how broad vs focused you want your character to be. The three-15s/three-8s build is hyperfocused and is going to be taking risks unless those three dumped stats genuinely do not matter. (Best I can think of for that is a casting-focused Cleric who uses shillelagh or true strike, since that allows them to get around dumping Str while still being effective in melee--but they're still going to be very vulnerable to certain kinds of attacks.) Likewise, the three-13s/three-12s build theoretically has more total stat points, but is going to be at a mild disadvantage in their "core shtick" until level 12--though that means others will be picking up feats or improving secondary stats, but on the flipside you won't have any totally "bad" saves, and you'll be something of a dabbler in everything. Could work particularly well for a Warlock who starts out purely utility-focused and then shifts to Blade Pact later on--so your focus on Charisma doesn't hurt you later on.So, overall? Yes, I would say 5e's 27 PB is actually very well-balanced. It is not perfectly balanced because almost nothing (that isn't trivial) is perfectly balanced. I don't demand perfection of balance from anything, generally speaking. Certainly compared to most other parts of 5e's rules, its point buy rules are highly well-balanced, and any unbalanced (usually underpowered) things are really easy to see so long as the player understands how ability score modifiers work (e.g. that odd stats suck).</blockquote>

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