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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Electrik Wizard" data-source="post: 9830872" data-attributes="member: 6789690">Define balance. The point buy system provides balance, but not (exactly) in the way you think. This is explained in my conclusion at the bottom if you want to skip the rest of my reply.Yes. Let's assume those scores are played in character sheet order, strength to charisma, and they're barbarians (any race or background).They have the same AC, but the Standard Array barbarian is slightly stronger, has a slightly better chance to hit their target, and does slightly more damage.The 13/12 barbarian isn't quiet as strong, but better at wisdom or charisma saves. Their offensive capabilities aren't quite as good, but their all around defences are slightly better. But they're also going to have a slight edge over the standard guy in any check made for knowledge, instinct, or personality based events.But let's say that you had a barbarian with 15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8. This guy is the equal of the Standard Array barbarian in Strength, and surpasses both in AC. But they have a slight disadvantage in all mental saves and checks.It seems like the thing that brings them the balance is the fact that modifiers are so small.Here's the thing; too much balance was one of the more frustrating aspects of 4th edition.D&D isn't about balance, it's about synergy; these things aren't synonymous. It's more of a combat game than ever before, but if the classes are all the same it starts to feel homogeneous.The point of a standard array is more about fairness. Sure, a wizard with a 15 in intelligence is going to do more overall damage than a barbarian with 15 in strength, but the way those two classes work together is what makes the game interesting.Constitution is important for everybody, especially low HP classes. It's arguably more important for all magic users because of concentration checks, though the wizard has the lowest basic HP of all. For a barbarian (sorry to lean so heavily on that class as an example), offering more constitution is like offering a rich man more money; they'll still take it, even if they don't need it as much.It's balanced enough. But the point isn't to make it so that two of the same class are totally equal.Sorry if this sounds like I'm ignoring this, but the points buying system is specifically there to address the imbalances of dice based score determation.eg; Two new players roll their 3d6 * 6 at their very first session. One gets a 12, 10, 8, 6, 6, and 5. The other gets 18, 16, 16, 14, 12, and 10.The first player only ever gets to add one to their best ability score, and has to subtract from most of them. The other player gets to add FOUR to their best score, and gets to add to most of their other scores.(If this was the Avengers, it'd be like Happy Hogan next to Hulk with Brace Banner's brain).This is an extreme example but it happens, and there's a chance that player one probably isn't going to turn up for session 2.My main problem with the points buy is that it doesn't go far enough. I feel like it should give the option to have at least one 18, but at the expense of having a 6 or lower in another ability. The character would be exceptional in some ways, and get to feel like a hero when performing related tasks, but at the expense of being flawed in other ways.  Or at least a variant option for this, depending on the setting and the tone you want to evoke. (It'd be good for heroic fantasy, less so for anything darker and more gritty).I know you're meant to start at level 1, and a level 1 adventurer isn't supposed to be as amazing as a level 20 demigod, but your average D&D game is likely to be heroic fantasy, and it doesn't exactly feel good of the average PC is little different than a typical NPC commoner.</blockquote>

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