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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CleverNickName" data-source="post: 9837724" data-attributes="member: 50987">Going back to the original post, from [USER=6682043]@Lakesidefantasy[/USER] so many pages ago:There was an example given as well:The question was (and has always been) whether or not Point Buy was balanced with itself---in other words, are all 65 possible combinations of ability scores equally effective---and I completely ignored it and jumped right to dice rolling and whatnot.  Sorry about that.So.  Like any other comparative analysis, we start with the outliers and compare them to the stuff in the middle.Case 1:  15-15-15-8-8-8Case 2:  13-13-13-12-12-12Case 3:  15-14-13-12-10-8Comparing the same character that is identical in every way except for these ability scores, I'll start with a Human Wizard.[SPOILER=Boring Stuff]Case 1:STR 8+1=9DEX 15+1=16CON 15+1=16INT 15+1=16WIS 8+1=9CHA 8+1=9This wizard has a total ability score bonus of +6.  Their ability scores give them a -1 penalty to Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma-based skills and saves, but gain +3 hit points, +3 to AC, and +3 to their spell attacks.  Three +3s in exchange for three -1s.Case 2:STR 12+1=13DEX 13+1=14CON 13+1=14INT 13+1=14WIS 12+1=13CHA 12+1=13This wizard has a total ability score bonus of +9.  They have no ability score penalties, and either a +1 or a +2 bonus to all ability checks and saves.  They have no penalties, but the tradeoff is that they have +2 hit points, +2 to AC, and +2 to their spell attacks.Case 3:STR 8+1=9DEX 14+1=15CON 13+1=14INT 15+1=16WIS 12+1=13CHA 10+1=11This wizard has a total ability score bonus of +7.  They have only a single -1 penalty (I put it in Strength), everything else is either +0 or higher.  For that single -1 to Strength saves and ability checks, they have +1 to Wisdom-based skills and saves,  +2 to AC, +2 hit points, and their spell attacks are at +3.All other cases will fall somewhere in the middle of these.  How about my favorite case, 15-13-13-13-11-8?STR 8+1=9DEX 13+1=14CON 13+1=14INT 15+1=16WIS 13+1=14CHA 11+1=12This would give our wizard a total ability score bonus of +9, just like in Case 2, but sacrifices their bonus to Strength in order to get a +3 to their spell attacks.[/SPOILER]Are these cases all balanced?  Yes, IMO.  Each one of them will create a character that is fun to play, with unique strengths and weaknesses, and presents interesting choices at each ASI.  Do you choose a feat?  Do you spike one score as high as possible, as quickly as possible? or do you nullify some weaknesses first?  Choose any of these cases, and the game will be fun and rewarding, and your choices will be meaningful.Are they balanced with each other, as the original post asked?  No, IMO.  Some ability score combinations are going to play differently at low levels, and will be better-suited to different character classes and races.  Some sets will make optimization easier, others make versatility easier, some trade penalties for higher bonuses and others don't.  And you know what?  I believe that's the whole point.  If the devs intended otherwise, they wouldn't have given us three different ways to get ability scores.  IMO, YMMV, etc.</blockquote>

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