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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 3100355" data-attributes="member: 13892">I didn't say that -- in fact, the first group I mention is very ecstatic about Ptolus. I mentioned they have two recurring complaints about items being talked about but not statted up in the book and not enough detail being offered on the old city, but nowhere did I say that they they were disappointed. Quite the contrary -- they love Ptolus. Having complaints isn't the same thign as being disappointed. [Note: I did say that the secodn group was disappointed, but they very specifically used that word themselves, so... err... are they lying? I doubt it.]Incidentally, those are the two camps that I've actually seen post about Ptolus. I suspect a "Love every last bit of it" camp exists, only because such a camp always exists, but I never take them seriously where products are concerned because of their wild bias -- if their favorite author crapped on a plate, they'd eat it and declare with a wide, brown, smile that it was a wonderful five course meal. Regarding Waterdeep and Greyhawk, I don't recall there being fixed demographic  breakdowns of race/class frequency in my AD&D 1e core rulebooks. So far as I could tell, all of the rules in the AD&D 1e core rulebooks make an appearance in Greyhawk and Waterdeep. I don't recall either city (in AD&D 1e, anyhow) specifically ignoring the core rules as you claim they do.[Edit: I just re-checked my original AD&D DMG to see if I could find the fixed race/class demographics that you cited, but couldn't locate them. Do you have page number handy?][Re-Edit: You're right about the effects of magic upon early AD&D cities not being fully explored, but that doesn't mean that they ignored the core rules, it merely means that they didn't take the time to spell everything out in the detail that Ptolus did (which I already pointed out in the post that you replied to). That said, the effects of magic on society being spelled out like that isn't a new idea either -- Eberron did a pretty good job of this.]</blockquote>

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