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<blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 3680590" data-attributes="member: 6777">I think the point LostSoul was making was that, even in your example of an ambush that the PCs &quot;can't avoid,&quot; the players are still the ones who will determine the outcome... assuming the DM isn't going to fudge things in order to insure the PCs win or lose, regardless of what they do, of course.This harkens back to an earlier point that it's not railroading to present an encounter that has to be deal with. Presenting encounters, i.e., situations, is the DM's job. What's more important is whether the outcome has been predetermined, as well as the larger context of the encounter.The issue is the illusion of choice. A dungeon that consists of a single 100' corridor, monster encounters every 25' feet, and the Golden MacGuffin at the end is not railroading. Sure, it's not particularly interesting scenario design, but there's no deception involved. There's just a very obvious goal and path toward it. Railroading is only an issue if the DM made it look like there were other ways to reach the goal when really there were not, or else insured that the PCs would or would not reach the MacGuffin no matter what happened.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="buzz, post: 3680590, member: 6777"] I think the point LostSoul was making was that, even in your example of an ambush that the PCs "can't avoid," the players are still the ones who will determine the outcome... assuming the DM isn't going to fudge things in order to insure the PCs win or lose, regardless of what they do, of course. This harkens back to an earlier point that it's not railroading to present an encounter that has to be deal with. Presenting encounters, i.e., situations, is the DM's job. What's more important is whether the outcome has been predetermined, as well as the larger context of the encounter. The issue is the illusion of choice. A dungeon that consists of a single 100' corridor, monster encounters every 25' feet, and the Golden MacGuffin at the end is not railroading. Sure, it's not particularly interesting scenario design, but there's no deception involved. There's just a very obvious goal and path toward it. Railroading is only an issue if the DM made it look like there were other ways to reach the goal when really there were not, or else insured that the PCs would or would not reach the MacGuffin no matter what happened. [/QUOTE]

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