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Is RAISE DEAD (etc.) too readily available in most D&D campaigns?
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<blockquote data-quote="molonel" data-source="post: 3349014" data-attributes="member: 10412"><p>It is an official WotC campaign world. So is Living Greyhawk, which is older:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome" target="_blank">http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome</a></p><p></p><p>So is Living Death:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.livingdeath.org/" target="_blank">http://www.livingdeath.org/</a></p><p></p><p>So is Eberron.</p><p></p><p>You are required to use none of these. None is the default.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Storyteller is arguing "This is the baseline, this is the default, this is the way the game nearly always is."</p><p></p><p>I'm saying that there are a variety of means and factors that affect the game. Okay, you succeed in using magic to successfully preserve the body and travel overland days or weeks to find a city. That's not a McCleric. That's work.</p><p></p><p>Sooner or later, teleport can come into play. That makes it easier if you memorize the city on the same plane to which you will always travel for Raise Dead spells. This is not a trick. This is not a revelation. This is upper level play. This also happens about half of the way to 20th level, which is the the upper limit of non-epic play.</p><p></p><p>I'm not fiatting anything. I'm simply saying everything is not cheap and easy.</p><p></p><p>And I've done so very effectively.</p><p></p><p>You keep wanting to make your way sound superior, no matter how you argue. The difference between us is that I'm not trying to do that. I'm saying we use different means to achieve the same end.</p><p></p><p>So it's not that your way involves less DM fiat, because I'm not employing DM fiat to override the rules. I'm playing well within the rules. You're playing a wider variant, but you're within the rules, too. Hopefully, all of us are having fun.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot imagine why players shouldn't be around the corner from a major metropolis and a Starbucks - oops, I mean a high temple - at every step of the game.</p><p></p><p>Do you give them unlimited gold, too? Or can you simply not think of a reason not to?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or I can imagine a game where the DM has to invent tools like "heroic luck" to explain why people never die. Ever. Never ever.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I can make fun of that, too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And here again, we have the caricature.</p><p></p><p>Death and resurrection have never been treated that way in my games, and unless you were floating in the ethereal plane while we gamed, you are clearly stepping outside the boundaries of what it is possible for you to know.</p><p></p><p>So kindly step back into reality, and talk about your own experiences. Because I am the only acknowledged expert present in this discussion about my experiences. And when you talk about them, you will always be wrong unless you agree with me.</p><p></p><p>Caricatures notwithstanding.</p><p></p><p>You want resurrection to happen perhaps once or twice in a campaign. Rock on. Enjoy yourself. But if death is going to be a threat in any way, then you will compensate in other ways to prevent it.</p><p></p><p>Unless, of course, you're playing d20 My Little Pony, and combat is never lethal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And here is where we reach the point where we part ways. It is not a flaw. It works in my world, it is not a problem, and I put a lot of thought into my world design to figure out how everything fits.</p><p></p><p>If you see it as a flaw, that is certainly your right to view it in that way. But when you speak for everyone else, and we know that we've made it work, your argument has committed suicide because we know you are mistaken.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I grabbed no straws. You just prefer to caricature this or that point instead of admitting that someone maturely, intelligently and imaginatively disagrees with you.</p><p></p><p>I freely confess that your way is a legitimate way of gaming.</p><p></p><p>Why can't you be mature enough to do the same thing with the way in which I choose to game?</p><p></p><p>Why is your position so vulnerable, and so weak, and so easily threatened that it must be the ONLY right way in order for you to play and enjoy it?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="molonel, post: 3349014, member: 10412"] It is an official WotC campaign world. So is Living Greyhawk, which is older: [url]http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome[/url] So is Living Death: [url]http://www.livingdeath.org/[/url] So is Eberron. You are required to use none of these. None is the default. No. Storyteller is arguing "This is the baseline, this is the default, this is the way the game nearly always is." I'm saying that there are a variety of means and factors that affect the game. Okay, you succeed in using magic to successfully preserve the body and travel overland days or weeks to find a city. That's not a McCleric. That's work. Sooner or later, teleport can come into play. That makes it easier if you memorize the city on the same plane to which you will always travel for Raise Dead spells. This is not a trick. This is not a revelation. This is upper level play. This also happens about half of the way to 20th level, which is the the upper limit of non-epic play. I'm not fiatting anything. I'm simply saying everything is not cheap and easy. And I've done so very effectively. You keep wanting to make your way sound superior, no matter how you argue. The difference between us is that I'm not trying to do that. I'm saying we use different means to achieve the same end. So it's not that your way involves less DM fiat, because I'm not employing DM fiat to override the rules. I'm playing well within the rules. You're playing a wider variant, but you're within the rules, too. Hopefully, all of us are having fun. Okay, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot imagine why players shouldn't be around the corner from a major metropolis and a Starbucks - oops, I mean a high temple - at every step of the game. Do you give them unlimited gold, too? Or can you simply not think of a reason not to? Or I can imagine a game where the DM has to invent tools like "heroic luck" to explain why people never die. Ever. Never ever. Yeah, I can make fun of that, too. And here again, we have the caricature. Death and resurrection have never been treated that way in my games, and unless you were floating in the ethereal plane while we gamed, you are clearly stepping outside the boundaries of what it is possible for you to know. So kindly step back into reality, and talk about your own experiences. Because I am the only acknowledged expert present in this discussion about my experiences. And when you talk about them, you will always be wrong unless you agree with me. Caricatures notwithstanding. You want resurrection to happen perhaps once or twice in a campaign. Rock on. Enjoy yourself. But if death is going to be a threat in any way, then you will compensate in other ways to prevent it. Unless, of course, you're playing d20 My Little Pony, and combat is never lethal. And here is where we reach the point where we part ways. It is not a flaw. It works in my world, it is not a problem, and I put a lot of thought into my world design to figure out how everything fits. If you see it as a flaw, that is certainly your right to view it in that way. But when you speak for everyone else, and we know that we've made it work, your argument has committed suicide because we know you are mistaken. I grabbed no straws. You just prefer to caricature this or that point instead of admitting that someone maturely, intelligently and imaginatively disagrees with you. I freely confess that your way is a legitimate way of gaming. Why can't you be mature enough to do the same thing with the way in which I choose to game? Why is your position so vulnerable, and so weak, and so easily threatened that it must be the ONLY right way in order for you to play and enjoy it? [/QUOTE]
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