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<blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 7519144" data-attributes="member: 2445">What I find odd about this discussion is that it seems to discount magic and monster abilities.&nbsp; Both of these have a profound affect regarding range vs. melee.&nbsp; As a DM, I work to make sure that ranged attackers are not invincible by using flying creatures and spellcasters frequently enough that the party needs to be well rounded.&nbsp;&nbsp; Flying creatures prioritize ranged attackers over melee since only ranged can hurt them.&nbsp; Once ranged attackers are down, fliers can just drop big rocks if they want.Also non-corporeal undead can really affect ranged attackers as well.&nbsp; Frankly as a DM, I find it trivial to threaten ranged characters if that were my sole objective.&nbsp; But as a DM you want every player's build to shine and every player's build to be challenged over time to prevent players from having rote combat.&nbsp; It is far better for a party to have a balance of the different combat roles when possible.&nbsp; Especially since spells like Wind Wall can completely shutdown an archer. Warding Wind is another spell that makes live difficult on an archer.&nbsp; Monk with Deflect Missiles can also be a problem.&nbsp; In fact, the role of a monk is specifically to kill ranged attackers.Finally, GWF+GWM deals so much more damage than Archery + SS in Tiers 3 &amp; 4, there is no comparison.&nbsp; SS is a requirement for Archery to be even competitive with GWF in Tier 2, much less GWM.What I will say is that 5e did make an archery build viable compared with 3e in which archery was a fairly mediocre choice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WaterRabbit, post: 7519144, member: 2445"] What I find odd about this discussion is that it seems to discount magic and monster abilities. Both of these have a profound affect regarding range vs. melee. As a DM, I work to make sure that ranged attackers are not invincible by using flying creatures and spellcasters frequently enough that the party needs to be well rounded. Flying creatures prioritize ranged attackers over melee since only ranged can hurt them. Once ranged attackers are down, fliers can just drop big rocks if they want. Also non-corporeal undead can really affect ranged attackers as well. Frankly as a DM, I find it trivial to threaten ranged characters if that were my sole objective. But as a DM you want every player's build to shine and every player's build to be challenged over time to prevent players from having rote combat. It is far better for a party to have a balance of the different combat roles when possible. Especially since spells like [I]Wind Wall[/I] can completely shutdown an archer. [I]Warding Wind[/I] is another spell that makes live difficult on an archer. Monk with Deflect Missiles can also be a problem. In fact, the role of a monk is specifically to kill ranged attackers. Finally, GWF+GWM deals so much more damage than Archery + SS in Tiers 3 & 4, there is no comparison. SS is a requirement for Archery to be even competitive with GWF in Tier 2, much less GWM. What I will say is that 5e did make an archery build viable compared with 3e in which archery was a fairly mediocre choice. [/QUOTE]

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