Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 7519544" data-attributes="member: 2445">Guns were not introduced to combat people in chainmail. The most common armor in the Renaissance was not chainmail but a breastplate.  Peasant levies also don't wear armor; archers don't wear armor. Longbows and crossbows could penetrate armor as well. The need for a weapon to puncture armor was not nearly as important as the ability to field masses of ranged weapons. Plate armor was proofed against arrows, bolts, and bullets.  However, only a very few could afford such armor.You are arguing a position that has been debunked time and time again.Guns were an economic solution, not a military one.  A peasant could be trained to use a firearm in a few weeks, which allowed larger armies to be fielded and so forth.LOL. I am from the Southwest and own many guns and go to the range quite often. So what?Silencers have never been a bit part of military missions outside of very carefully planned special operations that take into account their use.  They are useful on raids.Except that the article isn't about stealth missions at all. It defines when a suppressed weapon can be useful and under what conditions with very many caveats surrounding it.  And my point still stands.It wasn't a condescending personal attack, it was a lighthearted comment that you chose to be offended by.  I guess I needed to put a smiley on it for you? My comment was mostly made so that others didn't misconstrue that silencers were anywhere near what Hollywood portrays them to be.  Perhaps you need more fiber in your diet?I never claimed that silencers were not useful only that they actually aren't silent.  Again a silenced weapon is louder than a barking dog.  The weapons used on the Osama Bin Laden raid were M4s with a AAC M4-2000 suppressor which is a great silencer. It reduces the report by about 34 db, so still louder than a barking dog. (It also has an MSRP of $800 which is about the cost of a cheap AR.) However, the supposed advantage was negated due to the noise entry of the raiders.  Even without the helicopter crash, the entry was noisey.  The main advantage it allows the team to fire their weapons without defeaning themselves.The conditions for the use of a silenced weapon could mostly be filled by a non-silenced weapon.  Concealment and range apply to both.  Snipers don't bother with suppressors because they take advantage of concealment and range.I personally agree with your Shooting Illustrated author that silencers shouldn't be regulated by the 1934 act for the same reasons. At the ranges I shoot at with my pistol, I much prefer shooting with a silencer and I still use ear protection. It is also nice for longer ranges as you only need to protect one ear so the other ear can hear the sound of the iron pig when it is hit.If you really want a silent weapon use a crossbow. Most Renaissance cities created ordinances against them since they were truly silent. Otherwise, there are very few (as in a super tiny amount) of situations where a suppressed weapon cannot be heard compared to a normal weapon.  A subsonic round fired from a silencer also has very little stopping power.  That shot has to be extremely accurate or the target is going to still be active.  There is a place for silencers in the military, but only under scenarios with very tight constraints.  They are completely useless on the battlefield.  It is the same argument about flash suppressors as well (which you also seem to think do something they don't).  A flash suppressor doesn't hid the flash of a gunshot to anyone actually looking in the direction of the barrel.  The flash suppressor keeps the flash from affecting the shooters night vision.  They are practically useless during the day.  Again there is a place for them, but not a widespread case.---------------To sum it up from your original post, silencers have always been a corner case and not a widespread reason or advantage for firearms -- at least not to the extent you are implying.  Especially since they weren't even invented unit the early 1900s.</blockquote>

Verification