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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9069587" data-attributes="member: 6877472">It comes down to the fact that we want to maintain the illusion that the player characters aren't aware of the abstract game mechanics that govern their world, but the problem with that is that they are always dealing with them.&nbsp; Even if they aren't aware of what a &quot;death save&quot; is (or any saving throw for that matter), they should be aware of the in-universe explanation for why sometimes people stabilize instead of bleeding out, or how sometimes, someone pops back up when they were knocked down, whatever that explanation is.Griping that player characters should not be aware of things outside the narrative when the narrative has to account for those things being observable seems a bit suspect.&nbsp; And the game is already full of things like this; a Wizard knows whether or not their Shield spell will deflect an attack before they cast it, despite not knowing what &quot;Armor Class&quot; is.&nbsp; This implies that there is something in the narrative that a &quot;miss by 5 or less&quot; attack looks like that they can respond to.So I have to believe that there has to be something similar for when saving throws occur that the characters can observe as happening.&nbsp; If you cast Hold Person, you have to have some sense of how long someone remains paralyzed before they can break out at a minimum, just from using the spell often (as an example).&nbsp; So perhaps we shouldn't look at it like fourth wall awareness for characters to be aware of the game mechanics that bind their universe, but instead consider what game mechanics look like to them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9069587, member: 6877472"] It comes down to the fact that we want to maintain the illusion that the player characters aren't aware of the abstract game mechanics that govern their world, but the problem with that is that they are always dealing with them. Even if they aren't aware of what a "death save" is (or any saving throw for that matter), they should be aware of the in-universe explanation for why sometimes people stabilize instead of bleeding out, or how sometimes, someone pops back up when they were knocked down, whatever that explanation is. Griping that player characters should not be aware of things outside the narrative when the narrative has to account for those things being observable seems a bit suspect. And the game is already full of things like this; a Wizard knows whether or not their Shield spell will deflect an attack before they cast it, despite not knowing what "Armor Class" is. This implies that there is something in the narrative that a "miss by 5 or less" attack looks like that they can respond to. So I have to believe that there has to be something similar for when saving throws occur that the characters can observe as happening. If you cast Hold Person, you have to have some sense of how long someone remains paralyzed before they can break out at a minimum, just from using the spell often (as an example). So perhaps we shouldn't look at it like fourth wall awareness for characters to be aware of the game mechanics that bind their universe, but instead consider what game mechanics look like to them. [/QUOTE]

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