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<blockquote data-quote="GuardianLurker" data-source="post: 223179" data-attributes="member: 786">Caliban, KReynolds -interesting discussion you two have going here. I'd like to contribute something to clarify what you all have been saying. (Knowing my luck though, I'm just going to muddy the waters, but here goes anyway.)It seems to me, that the key points are what is meant as extra-dimensional, non-dimensional, and (by extension) dimesional. The last is easy if we convert it to its noun form - a dimension in D&amp;D terms is another way of saying &quot;plane&quot; in this context. Astral Dimension == Astral Plane, for instance.So let's change the terminology and see if it helps. Dimensional becomes planar, so &quot;extra-dimensional&quot; becomes &quot;extra-planar&quot;, and &quot;non-dimensional&quot; becomes &quot;non-planar&quot;.&quot;Extra-planar&quot;! We already know what that means; something within the D&amp;D cosmology, but not of our current plane. And for this to work on all planes, this means that the &quot;extra-dimensional&quot; spaces are probably bits of the Astral Plane that have been &quot;walled&quot; off. Admittedly, this turns the Astral Plane into KoDT's &quot;Bag Space&quot;, but that's never struck me as farcical as its supposed to.&quot;Non-planar&quot; is tougher though. In the standard D&amp;D cosmology, the only way I can make sense of it, is if it extends into the &quot;nothingness&quot; beyond the Astral Plane. What this implies is completely DM-defined. Using these interpretations, confounding like with like would probably produce identical results - a rift to the Astral Plane (or to a random part of the Astral Plane if you were already there). The reasons are slightly different, however. For non-dimensional spaces, you'd be essentially turning &quot;nothingness&quot; inside-out, causing a fracture in your current plane, which by definition is residing within the Astral Plane. For extra-dimensional spaces, you'd end up trying to step &quot;beyond&quot; the Astral Plane, into the nothingness, which opens a fracture, etc. Alternatively, this could work as an uncontrolled plane shift, opening a gate to an arbitrary plane.Mind you, all of that conjecture was formulated without reference to any of the 3e rules, so it may or may not be satisfactory.Hope the babble was helpful...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GuardianLurker, post: 223179, member: 786"] Caliban, KReynolds - interesting discussion you two have going here. I'd like to contribute something to clarify what you all have been saying. (Knowing my luck though, I'm just going to muddy the waters, but here goes anyway.) It seems to me, that the key points are what is meant as extra-dimensional, non-dimensional, and (by extension) dimesional. The last is easy if we convert it to its noun form - a dimension in D&D terms is another way of saying "plane" in this context. Astral Dimension == Astral Plane, for instance. So let's change the terminology and see if it helps. Dimensional becomes planar, so "extra-dimensional" becomes "extra-planar", and "non-dimensional" becomes "non-planar". "Extra-planar"! We already know what that means; something within the D&D cosmology, but not of our current plane. And for this to work on all planes, this means that the "extra-dimensional" spaces are probably bits of the Astral Plane that have been "walled" off. Admittedly, this turns the Astral Plane into KoDT's "Bag Space", but that's never struck me as farcical as its supposed to. "Non-planar" is tougher though. In the standard D&D cosmology, the only way I can make sense of it, is if it extends into the "nothingness" beyond the Astral Plane. What this implies is completely DM-defined. Using these interpretations, confounding like with like would probably produce identical results - a rift to the Astral Plane (or to a random part of the Astral Plane if you were already there). The reasons are slightly different, however. For non-dimensional spaces, you'd be essentially turning "nothingness" inside-out, causing a fracture in your current plane, which by definition is residing within the Astral Plane. For extra-dimensional spaces, you'd end up trying to step "beyond" the Astral Plane, into the nothingness, which opens a fracture, etc. Alternatively, this could work as an uncontrolled [i]plane shift[/i], opening a gate to an arbitrary plane. Mind you, all of that conjecture was formulated without reference to any of the 3e rules, so it may or may not be satisfactory. Hope the babble was helpful... [/QUOTE]

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