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Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7596685" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=57112]Gradine[/MENTION], I'm having trouble following you because you seem to be making an assumption about what is informing my OP which does not hold good. If you're not making that assumption, then I'm still confused about what you're saying but am also confused about why I'm confused!</p><p></p><p>In a post-OP post somewhere upthread I think I mentioned classic dungeoncrawling along the lines of Gygax's PHB (which is what I understand you to mean by OSR-type play). As I said in that post, I don't think that play of that sort is a literary endeavour, because it's not an artistic endeavour at all. In respect of the goals and outlook of play (though not all the methods), it's closer to a wargame.</p><p></p><p>But that wasn't what I had in mind in my OP. In my OP I'm talking about play that (if one can speak relatively broadly) would be the sort of play involved in a PbtA game. Though, as I've said, my actual PbtA play exerpience is modest, I'm pretty familiar with character-driven, largely "no myth" play based aroudn the core dynamic of <em>GM frames scene which invites protagnoism from players via their PCs</em> and in response <em>players engage fiction via their PCs</em>.</p><p></p><p>It's because [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] is familiar with this feature of my biography as a RPGer that he posed the questions he did not far upthread. To summarise, Manbearcat asked how the GMing techniques of that sort of play - building on prior fiction; responding to and building on theme and similar player-flagged points of interest/engagement; managing the pacing issues need to achieve effective transition from scene-to-scene so as to keep the invitations open while allowing the protagonism to play itself out - fit with my contention in the OP.</p><p></p><p>My response is twofold: (i) extrapolating and building on a fiction within parameters of theme/interest/"meaningfulness" is not about quaity of form, insofar as it can be done even by a GM who is not particularly artistic or skillful in his/her actual narration of situations and consequences (I know this because I've experienced it); (ii) the sorts of pacing issues involved in GMing generally operate at a level (relative to the narrative) whereby managing them is more about <em>what to say when</em> then <em>how deftly one says it</em>. A GM can have a sense of when a scene is done, and act on that sense by bringing it to a close and framing a new scene, without being a good writer or even a good storyboarder (a storyborader has to anticipate, but a GM has a lot of real-time cues to act upon).</p><p></p><p>Does that make my view any clearer?</p><p></p><p>Also, with respect to the thespian/performance aspect, I think that conversation can be entertaining but (at least for me) the question of whether I enjoy conversing with someone isn't normally increased by the extent to which they approach conversation as a performer/entertainer. To put it another way, salon wit of course has its place but (in my view) isn't of the essence of enjoyable conversation. I see RPGing in the same way - there has to be the back-and-frorth betwen the GM and players, and unlike typical conversation it is structured in certain ways around the shared creation of a fiction. But it's not about <em>being an entertainer/performer</em>, although hopefully the participants find it entertaining/enjoyable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7596685, member: 42582"] [MENTION=57112]Gradine[/MENTION], I'm having trouble following you because you seem to be making an assumption about what is informing my OP which does not hold good. If you're not making that assumption, then I'm still confused about what you're saying but am also confused about why I'm confused! In a post-OP post somewhere upthread I think I mentioned classic dungeoncrawling along the lines of Gygax's PHB (which is what I understand you to mean by OSR-type play). As I said in that post, I don't think that play of that sort is a literary endeavour, because it's not an artistic endeavour at all. In respect of the goals and outlook of play (though not all the methods), it's closer to a wargame. But that wasn't what I had in mind in my OP. In my OP I'm talking about play that (if one can speak relatively broadly) would be the sort of play involved in a PbtA game. Though, as I've said, my actual PbtA play exerpience is modest, I'm pretty familiar with character-driven, largely "no myth" play based aroudn the core dynamic of [I]GM frames scene which invites protagnoism from players via their PCs[/I] and in response [I]players engage fiction via their PCs[/I]. It's because [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] is familiar with this feature of my biography as a RPGer that he posed the questions he did not far upthread. To summarise, Manbearcat asked how the GMing techniques of that sort of play - building on prior fiction; responding to and building on theme and similar player-flagged points of interest/engagement; managing the pacing issues need to achieve effective transition from scene-to-scene so as to keep the invitations open while allowing the protagonism to play itself out - fit with my contention in the OP. My response is twofold: (i) extrapolating and building on a fiction within parameters of theme/interest/"meaningfulness" is not about quaity of form, insofar as it can be done even by a GM who is not particularly artistic or skillful in his/her actual narration of situations and consequences (I know this because I've experienced it); (ii) the sorts of pacing issues involved in GMing generally operate at a level (relative to the narrative) whereby managing them is more about [I]what to say when[/I] then [I]how deftly one says it[/I]. A GM can have a sense of when a scene is done, and act on that sense by bringing it to a close and framing a new scene, without being a good writer or even a good storyboarder (a storyborader has to anticipate, but a GM has a lot of real-time cues to act upon). Does that make my view any clearer? Also, with respect to the thespian/performance aspect, I think that conversation can be entertaining but (at least for me) the question of whether I enjoy conversing with someone isn't normally increased by the extent to which they approach conversation as a performer/entertainer. To put it another way, salon wit of course has its place but (in my view) isn't of the essence of enjoyable conversation. I see RPGing in the same way - there has to be the back-and-frorth betwen the GM and players, and unlike typical conversation it is structured in certain ways around the shared creation of a fiction. But it's not about [I]being an entertainer/performer[/I], although hopefully the participants find it entertaining/enjoyable. [/QUOTE]
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