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Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7609377" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Time deaf, space deaf, maybe just deaf deaf . . .</p><p></p><p>Anyway, here are the two options again:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p></p><p>My players aren't too tone deaf. They can tell that the second description paints more of a "word picture" than the first. But is RPGing about enjoying word pictures? On the player side, I think it's about <em>doing</em> - about playing your PC as protagonist in the imagined situation. Which description will establish a situation that the players' are moved to engage? Until I know who the players are, who their PCs are, why they would care about the glutton Titan, etc, how can I know?</p><p></p><p>If the idea on the GM side is to present a disgusting creature whom the PCs will be raring to fight, and we've all just come from a viewing of Men in Black, then maybe number 1 is the way to go!</p><p></p><p>But not into the realm of <em>trying to craft a beautiful work</em>. Children can express concerns about keeping in character when they play make believe together, but that doesn't make their play of make believe into a literary endeavour in the salient sense.</p><p></p><p>Well as it happens we played a session of <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?658285-Played-The-Dying-Earth-RPG-for-the-first-time-today" target="_blank">The Dying Earth</a> a couple of months ago. Emulating Vance's dialogue, including in such a way as to make the other participants burst into laughter, isn't what I was thinking of when I posted the OP.</p><p></p><p>I'll come back to this below, but at this point will report that we had some funny dialogue and some laughter-inducing taglines, but I don't think what we produced would count as quality literature, and nor were we aiming for that.</p><p></p><p>To me this is at the heart of the discussion in this thread.</p><p></p><p>Contra [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s claim upthread, it's nothing about "fluff" vs "crunch". Rather, its <em>RPGing as performance/entertainment</em> as opposed to <em>RPGing as shared inhabitation of the imagined world</em>. Hussar is right, I think, to point to The Dying Earth RPG as a game which plays with this contrast, but from my own play experience I am still comfortable in saying that, for us, it was inhabitation of the Vancian world which drove our play - and the taglines and dialogue were part of that. Part of what I have in mind in saying this is that what made the taglines funny (when they were) wasn't the deftness of delivery or timing in the theatrical sense, but the way it reinforced the contrivance and absurdity that is at the heart of the in-fiction situation.</p><p></p><p>To me this seems to be the crunch point. And I don't think it's sad at all.</p><p></p><p>I've got nothing against literary endeavours. But why would RPGing be the place for that? As opposed to, say, writing and perhaps reciting literature? (And to relate this again to The Dying Earth RPG: I don't think our Dying Earth session is best analysed as an attempt to create Vancian fanfic. Whereas to my mind this is what you are saying we should have been aiming at.)</p><p></p><p>RPGing (once again bracketing a certain sort of classic dungeon crawlilng) is about a particular approach to shared fiction creation: one participant (broadly) in control of setting and situation, one or more others (broady) inhabiting protagonists within that setting and situation. What makes it go is when the setting/situation <em>draw in</em> those would-be protagonists. It's about imagination and the resulting "inhabitation" of the fiction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7609377, member: 42582"] Time deaf, space deaf, maybe just deaf deaf . . . Anyway, here are the two options again: [indent][/indent] My players aren't too tone deaf. They can tell that the second description paints more of a "word picture" than the first. But is RPGing about enjoying word pictures? On the player side, I think it's about [I]doing[/I] - about playing your PC as protagonist in the imagined situation. Which description will establish a situation that the players' are moved to engage? Until I know who the players are, who their PCs are, why they would care about the glutton Titan, etc, how can I know? If the idea on the GM side is to present a disgusting creature whom the PCs will be raring to fight, and we've all just come from a viewing of Men in Black, then maybe number 1 is the way to go! But not into the realm of [I]trying to craft a beautiful work[/I]. Children can express concerns about keeping in character when they play make believe together, but that doesn't make their play of make believe into a literary endeavour in the salient sense. Well as it happens we played a session of [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?658285-Played-The-Dying-Earth-RPG-for-the-first-time-today]The Dying Earth[/url] a couple of months ago. Emulating Vance's dialogue, including in such a way as to make the other participants burst into laughter, isn't what I was thinking of when I posted the OP. I'll come back to this below, but at this point will report that we had some funny dialogue and some laughter-inducing taglines, but I don't think what we produced would count as quality literature, and nor were we aiming for that. To me this is at the heart of the discussion in this thread. Contra [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s claim upthread, it's nothing about "fluff" vs "crunch". Rather, its [I]RPGing as performance/entertainment[/I] as opposed to [I]RPGing as shared inhabitation of the imagined world[/I]. Hussar is right, I think, to point to The Dying Earth RPG as a game which plays with this contrast, but from my own play experience I am still comfortable in saying that, for us, it was inhabitation of the Vancian world which drove our play - and the taglines and dialogue were part of that. Part of what I have in mind in saying this is that what made the taglines funny (when they were) wasn't the deftness of delivery or timing in the theatrical sense, but the way it reinforced the contrivance and absurdity that is at the heart of the in-fiction situation. To me this seems to be the crunch point. And I don't think it's sad at all. I've got nothing against literary endeavours. But why would RPGing be the place for that? As opposed to, say, writing and perhaps reciting literature? (And to relate this again to The Dying Earth RPG: I don't think our Dying Earth session is best analysed as an attempt to create Vancian fanfic. Whereas to my mind this is what you are saying we should have been aiming at.) RPGing (once again bracketing a certain sort of classic dungeon crawlilng) is about a particular approach to shared fiction creation: one participant (broadly) in control of setting and situation, one or more others (broady) inhabiting protagonists within that setting and situation. What makes it go is when the setting/situation [I]draw in[/I] those would-be protagonists. It's about imagination and the resulting "inhabitation" of the fiction. [/QUOTE]
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