Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7611928" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I'm saying it may not be much of a dichotomy in may cases because the *how* is not cleanly separable from the what. Or, the how <em>is part of</em> the what. </p><p></p><p>To take an example that will probably mean something to most of us here. John Williams' score for the Star Wars movies. Those pieces generally stand on their own, and communicate things without the movie. I dare folks to claim that those musical pieces are not content, in and of themselves. The presentation of Star Wars <em>would not be the same story</em> if it had, instead, music by... Abba, say. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I certainly think sometimes, yes. </p><p></p><p>Lowkey may be averse to LARP, but I am not. In one game for which I was a routine NPC, the resurrection of dead PCs went through an afterlife. Within the afterlife, the "what" was incredibly simple - interact cogently with one of the NPCs for long enough, and we'd give you a card that would allow you to leave. The *how*, was everything. The large, open, darkened space that echoed conveniently. The masks we wore. That we spoke cryptically in ways the PCs thought meant things (they didn't). No PC ever failed to get resurrected, but they didn't know that failure was nigh impossible to do. People actively avoided death in combat in large part because we made the afterlife anxiety-inducing. Our "how" influenced the "what" of PC choices.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>So, at the cross section of horror and humor... I used to help run a very large, very long session of Paranoia each year.</p><p></p><p>We could have said, "The Production, Logistics, & Commissary citizens feed you some gross food." Instead, when dinnertime for the players came around, we tossed them baggies filled with shredded bologna in mustard with red food coloring, cooked spaghetti with chocolate sauce, and other foods that were actually entirely wholesome, but just looked nasty, or had weird textures. </p><p></p><p>Which do you figure would drive players to actually take action against each other to get choice bits - the words, "some gross food" or the *actuality* of gross food that they're expected to actually eat?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, that sounds like "willing, but without skills". In D&D, there are classes that are mechanically more simple than others (like, say, a typical fighter) that can be used until such time as the player learns somethings. Analogously, comedy has a role of the "straight man", who is kind of essential, but doesn't need to be quite so high-speed creative. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, then we find another game they are comfortable with. Not all games are for all people, and that's okay. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Change it from RPGs, to soccer - a game without all this presentation nonsense, right? What about the player who's a middle-aged guy, who's gone a bit round in the middle, can't run very fast or far. Are they not playing as well? Are they not enjoying the game as much?</p><p></p><p>Within RPGs - take the person who really doesn't have a flare for mechanics, and can't optimize their way out of a paper bag. Are they not playing as well? Are they not enjoying the game as much?</p><p></p><p>Whether or not they enjoy it as much probably mostly depends on whether they are in with people with the same general skills and desires out of play. The middle aged guy, playing in a pro game, probably won't enjoy it much. Playing with the other dads and moms in a neighborhood league, however, may be loads of fun.</p><p></p><p>But, let us be honest - most of us as GMs are not Tolkien or George RR Martin. Most of us are not professional writers or actors. We are not the soccer equivalent of Beckham. The learning curve isn't all that steep.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7611928, member: 177"] I'm saying it may not be much of a dichotomy in may cases because the *how* is not cleanly separable from the what. Or, the how [I]is part of[/I] the what. To take an example that will probably mean something to most of us here. John Williams' score for the Star Wars movies. Those pieces generally stand on their own, and communicate things without the movie. I dare folks to claim that those musical pieces are not content, in and of themselves. The presentation of Star Wars [i]would not be the same story[/i] if it had, instead, music by... Abba, say. I certainly think sometimes, yes. Lowkey may be averse to LARP, but I am not. In one game for which I was a routine NPC, the resurrection of dead PCs went through an afterlife. Within the afterlife, the "what" was incredibly simple - interact cogently with one of the NPCs for long enough, and we'd give you a card that would allow you to leave. The *how*, was everything. The large, open, darkened space that echoed conveniently. The masks we wore. That we spoke cryptically in ways the PCs thought meant things (they didn't). No PC ever failed to get resurrected, but they didn't know that failure was nigh impossible to do. People actively avoided death in combat in large part because we made the afterlife anxiety-inducing. Our "how" influenced the "what" of PC choices. So, at the cross section of horror and humor... I used to help run a very large, very long session of Paranoia each year. We could have said, "The Production, Logistics, & Commissary citizens feed you some gross food." Instead, when dinnertime for the players came around, we tossed them baggies filled with shredded bologna in mustard with red food coloring, cooked spaghetti with chocolate sauce, and other foods that were actually entirely wholesome, but just looked nasty, or had weird textures. Which do you figure would drive players to actually take action against each other to get choice bits - the words, "some gross food" or the *actuality* of gross food that they're expected to actually eat? Well, that sounds like "willing, but without skills". In D&D, there are classes that are mechanically more simple than others (like, say, a typical fighter) that can be used until such time as the player learns somethings. Analogously, comedy has a role of the "straight man", who is kind of essential, but doesn't need to be quite so high-speed creative. Well, then we find another game they are comfortable with. Not all games are for all people, and that's okay. Change it from RPGs, to soccer - a game without all this presentation nonsense, right? What about the player who's a middle-aged guy, who's gone a bit round in the middle, can't run very fast or far. Are they not playing as well? Are they not enjoying the game as much? Within RPGs - take the person who really doesn't have a flare for mechanics, and can't optimize their way out of a paper bag. Are they not playing as well? Are they not enjoying the game as much? Whether or not they enjoy it as much probably mostly depends on whether they are in with people with the same general skills and desires out of play. The middle aged guy, playing in a pro game, probably won't enjoy it much. Playing with the other dads and moms in a neighborhood league, however, may be loads of fun. But, let us be honest - most of us as GMs are not Tolkien or George RR Martin. Most of us are not professional writers or actors. We are not the soccer equivalent of Beckham. The learning curve isn't all that steep. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
Top