Is Shadow Weave Magic Useful?

[Corwin of Amber]

I'm playing a Cleric right now an I have Spell Focus(Necromancy). I am level 6 with +6 to Wis [Periapt of Wisdom +3 (homebrew item) & 19 base]. I have convinced my Dm to allow retraining of 1 feat/level of any that was applicable at the time the original was taken.

So my question is should I go with Shadow Weave Magic since it will mostly be all beneficial or is the +1 DC to spells level 0-3 with DCs of 16-19 worth it? Just to clarify, is Spell Focus in general worth it and does it become worth it if you burn 3 feats to increase DC by 3?

 

[Empirate]

You should, as a rule, never burn three feats on small numerical bonuses. Feats should be things that give you new powers or options, not things that give piddly plus-ones to whatever. So skip Spell Focus & Co., unless they're prereqs for something you want. Take Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and DMM: Persist instead, and your character will have a whole world of new possibilities open up - instead of slightly harder save DCs for some spells (AND lower caster level for others...).

That said, a one level dip in Shadow Adept can be useful, as it gets you all shadow feats at once. These can indeed come in handy, but it still depends on the campaign and what the DM allows you to do with them. In my campaign, there's an evil Sorcerer NPC (Enchantment focused), who's taken a level of Shadow Adept. Not for the save DCs, mind you, but for Insidious Magic: everybody has to make caster level checks to even notice her spells with Detect Magic or similar divinations. This is very useful to said NPC, as she's a spy currently infiltrating the good guys' base.

Think about what you want to be able to do first. You want to make very, very sure your enemies don't resist your spells? So why are you casting "save negates" spells in the first place, instead of buffs, BC, summons etc.? Sure, if you want to focus purely on save-or-suck spells, Spell Focus etc. are OK - but they're still not the best option. Why not just cast Owl's Wisdom instead? Coz you could also persist Divine Power then, or Vigorous Circle, or any number of super-powerful buffs instead of getting a meaningless +2 to save DCs for a few spells.

 

[Corwin of Amber]

That essentially sums up my thoughts. I guess I fell into the trap of assuming that since it was printed it must be useful in some capacity. I have ruled out DMM with persist as it tends to make every other character hate me (Last time I went for Divine Power + Consumptive Field).

As for the spell selection I wanted to attempt a character adept at disabling key enemies while commanding my undead army to sweep up the remains (thus the reliance on Enchantment and Necromancy).

 

[Persiflage]

I'm playing a Cleric right now an I have Spell Focus(Necromancy). I am level 6 with +6 to Wis [Periapt of Wisdom +3 (homebrew item) & 19 base]. I have convinced my Dm to allow retraining of 1 feat/level of any that was applicable at the time the original was taken.

So my question is should I go with Shadow Weave Magic since it will mostly be all beneficial or is the +1 DC to spells level 0-3 with DCs of 16-19 worth it? Just to clarify, is Spell Focus in general worth it and does it become worth it if you burn 3 feats to increase DC by 3?

Well first off, Shadow Weave Magic will lose you two points of Wisdom until you've jumped through a bunch of hoops to get them back. That doesn't seem like an ideal situation for a Cleric to be in, but I guess if your DM is prepared to hand-wave that away, fair enough.

How many saving-throw-allowed spells from Enchantment, Illusion or Necromancy are you casting? If the answer is "lots" (and you're not casting a lot of Evocation or Transmutation spells, which take a penalty) then it might be worth it. But as Empirate says, it might be more worth considering whether you actually want to be casting those spells in the first place.

In general, I've only taken Spell Focus when I've got a specialist Wizard, who will then take the Master Specialist PrC and get Greater Spell Focus for free, unless I've got something more interesting in mind. I don't usually bother with spells that allow saving throws, but there are a few Conjuration spells (glitterdust FTW!) that can make Spell Focus (Conjuration) worthwhile. That's assuming your build isn't feat-starved: if it is, forget it.

Clerics are a different kettle of fish. You've potentially got access to Divine Metamagic [Heighten Spell], which is going to beat the hell out of a +1 boost to your lower-level spells in the long run. They're generally not big on Illusions, so you won't see a lot of benefit there. To be sure, they get some nice Enchantment spells, but nothing you can't live without...

Unless there's some sort of over-arching concept thingy happening here (or else some cheesetastic abuse I'm missing) I don't really see Shadow Weave Magic or Spell Focus being worth it for you. Arcane casters get better mileage, by and large.

EDIT: Ninja'd by the OP... that'll teach me to wander off halfway through writing a reply!

 

[Corwin of Amber]

Well first off, Shadow Weave Magic will lose you two points of Wisdom until you've jumped through a bunch of hoops to get them back. That doesn't seem like an ideal situation for a Cleric to be in, but I guess if your DM is prepared to hand-wave that away, fair enough.

It was changed in A Player's Guide to Faerun (or is this the original?) to not add a Wisdom penalty or any of the other crazy cultist stuff.

Clerics are a different kettle of fish. You've potentially got access to Divine Metamagic [Heighten Spell], which is going to beat the hell out of a +1 boost to your lower-level spells in the long run. They're generally not big on Illusions, so you won't see a lot of benefit there. To be sure, they get some nice Enchantment spells, but nothing you can't live without...

The Heighten spell might be useful, especially since I have Undeath as a domain anyway. Is it possible to increase a spell's level beyond 9 with DMM or other Metamagic cost reducers?

 

[Empirate]

The Heighten spell might be useful, especially since I have Undeath as a domain anyway. Is it possible to increase a spell's level beyond 9 with DMM or other Metamagic cost reducers?

Not sure what you mean there. With metamagic cost reducers, the effective spell slot doesn't increase as much. Meaning a 5th level spell like Righteous Might affected by Persist Spell, with DMM: Persist, still takes a 5th level slot. The actual level of the spell doesn't change, either: the DMM-persisted Righteous Might spell is still a 5th level spell for all intents and purposes.
This in spite of the fact that a Persistent Righteous Might spell without DMM would need to be cast from an 11th level slot, which most people don't have. The spell level of a Persistent Righteous Might spell would still be 5 for all effects that only care for spell level, btw.

Heighten Spell is a different thing, though. Most metamagic feats don't change a spell's actual level (only the slot it is cast from), but Heighten Spell does. DMM: Heighten Spell thus produces one of the few situations in which a spell has a higher level than the slot it takes to cast. An Implosion spell, for example, could be Heightened to 11th level with DMM: Heighten, costing two turn attempts. It's now an 11th level spell for all intents and purposes (including save DC), but you can cast it from a 9th level slot.


Hope that was clear...

 

[Persiflage]

The only thing I'd add to that is Earth Sense and Earth Spell: whenever you heighten a spell while standing on earth or stone, Earth Spell gives you a free +1 boost to the effective level. In the case of DMM: Heighten Spell, this essentially cancels out the extra turning attempt you have to burn in order to use the feat.

Your build may be looking a bit feat-starved by now, but I thought I'd mention it

 

[Corwin of Amber]

Not sure what you mean there.

I meant to say DMM, not heighten (Undeath grants Extra Turning). Your explanation addressed my problem exactly, I was wondering if a non-epic game put a cap of 9 on a spell's level.

The only thing I'd add to that is Earth Sense and Earth Spell: whenever you heighten a spell while standing on earth or stone, Earth Spell gives you a free +1 boost to the effective level. In the case of DMM: Heighten Spell, this essentially cancels out the extra turning attempt you have to burn in order to use the feat.

I'm not too feat-starved, however I don't think Earth Spell really fits in with my character concept. Also, the feat specifically mentions higher level slots so I'm not sure if that works with DMM.

I think I'll try to make Heighten work. It seems that +5-6 DC aganst the BBEG is better than +1 against the minions that will have a hard time resisting anyway.