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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6170585" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Yes, clearly, as note near the end of this pretty solid guide at <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/treantmonk-s-guide-to-rangers" target="_blank">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/treantmonk-s-guide-to-rangers</a>, trying to be both a melee and ranged combatant is a poor choice.  He doesn't use 2 weapon fighting (and he's Pathfinder), but he seems a pretty effective character build.The big question is defining "good", "mediocre" and "overpowered".  My first 3rd Ed character was a Spiked Chain Fighter with, IIRC, STR 16, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 14, Wis 10, Ch 8.  He spent 3 skill points per level on Craft (Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, Blacksmith) and focused feats on combat expertise, improved Trip and Disarm, and the Dodge chain.  He may have had Weapon Focus, definitely not Specialization.  He was certainly not optimized for damage.  His job, as he developed, became "Get the Rogue a flanking bonus".  He did all right.Doesn't help damage, although for a Rogue the actual weapon damage is a small part of a Sneak Attack.Exactly.  At L10, your BAB is +10.  A 14 to 20 STR is a +3 difference - that doesn't seem make or break by comparison.  The  Mighty Cleric has a +7 BAB - the exact same 3 point difference - and he's viewed as overpowered.  Clearly, +3 doesn't make that substantial a difference.Yes.  You have made the choice to be hyper-invested in a single weapon, and you have spent FOUR feats on it to get +2 to hit and +4 damage.  If you wanted to be more versatile, I can think of a lot of places you could invest those feats.  Would your fighter be just useless with +2 less to hit and +4 less damage?  If we drop it to +1/+2, he can have the same +1/+2 with his Longbow.  If +1/+2 is so valuable, why isn't it valuable on the bow?Emphasis added.  True.  That makes the question, which I thought I posed above, where is the baseline?  Maybe the person spending all their feats on Greatswording deserves to get caught short by foes who fight at range, or challenges that rely on something other than combat.  He chose to spend all his feats on Greatswording, so one interpretation is "He is competent at Greatswording and sucks at everything else".  Another would be that he is overspecialized, and that the guy who has 2 or 4 less STR, devotes half his feats to Greatswording(5 at L10), and the rest to Archery (say 3) and to skills (the other 2 at 10th level, unless he's human)  is very good at Greatswording (or melee if he didn't pick "only with one weapon" feats), good at archery and competent at combat with other weapons.  And we don't feel sorry for the guy who dumped all else to focus exclusively on the Greatsword - he chose to be a one trick pony.If he wants Dodge (or Whirlwind attack) he needs a 13 DEX, so 14 gets you that extra +1.I think the real topic is "we want blasting to be competitive with other Wizard options", and it has grown to "we want non-Wizard and Wizard options to be competitive".  Maybe "ultrafocused" is well beyond competitive in the focused area, and is not competitive in flexibility - and maybe that's what we should be aiming for.With those to hit bonuses, I need a 10/15/20 to hit.  Not loving my second and third shots.  Maybe I should keep moving to stay between it and my caster friend, while harrying it with a bit of damage each round. Or maybe I should use that Rapid Shot feat.  If I fire one arrow, I have a 55% shot at one hit.  A full attack action without RS gives me a 70% chance at hitting at least once, while Rapid Shot bumps that to 77%.  or I Delay and hope it comes in to attack...  Rapid Shot gives me just shy 11 average damage per round - not huge, but way better than the 0 I get if I just stand there and whine that it won't come in range of my hyperspecialized melee brute.  What if I dump the three L1 archery feats in favour of WF, WS and GWF, Longbow?  Now I have an extra +2 to hit and damage, and 82% likely to get at least one hit per round.  Average damage now 11.5 instead of 9.5, so I average 13.8 damage per round.  Maybe I get rid of Seeking in favour of an elemental Burst damage to get some more damage in when forced to archery.Even if it lands, how useful are your investments in Combat reflexes, Trip, Sunder or Bull Rush?  How useful is Precise Shot for a melee guy?Hitting a lot more with these lower AC's.That DR is problematic.  That Burst could help a bit here, but this one will be tough without aligned weapons.It's a lot more effective than whining "my melee brute is useless", though.  Quite a bit more fun as well.That said, Pathfinder's Deadly Aim feat (Power Attack for ranged weapons) should be imported to level the field between range and melee.</blockquote>

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