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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6170649" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Let's see...first off, I rarely use WF and WS because, frankly, +1 to hit isn't that huge, and +2 damage doesn't impress me much.  +1 from the weapon?  OK.  Stat boosting?  Maybe, maybe not.  But one +6 item costs 36k vs 2 +4 items costing 16k, so let's use that.  Where is the baseline?  Do I need 14 dpr to be competitive, or is 7 good enough, and 14 overkill?  The charaters don't exist in a vacuum.  Your aproach, above, has much higher dpr in his area of expertise.  How do the two characters compare in dpr against an opponent who stays out of range?Let's look at Dandu's sample character instead.  Let's divest of the three archery feats and the EWP so he can have WF and WS with longbow and Greatsword.  We'll ditch Seeking as well, and get a Lightning Burst on the bow.   Now his Melee is +20/+15/+10 for 2d6+13 and Range is +19/+14/+9 for 1d8+7 + 1d6.  Dandu provided us with a number of CR 12 opponents for this fellow, and the best AC on the list was 27, so he has a 70% chance to hit (not 45%) with his first melee attack, and 65% with the bow.  That's against the high AC equal CR opponent.So, assuming full round actions and no criticals, that's 27 DPR in melee and 18 at range.Now, let's specialize in the sword - we'll swap over the Longbow feats for greater WF and WS +1/+2), drop his DEX from 14 to 10 so we can bump STR up 2 (not 4, since he'd want that higher STR from the outset, and it costs more to bump that high stat under point buy), so that's +1/+1 and -2/-0.  Ditch the gloves of DEX and the magic bow and he gets 12,800 gold back - not enough to upgrade his Belt of STR, but let's give him that one.  So another +1/+1, and lose 1 to hit with the bow.  Where does that leave us? Looks like his melee is +23/+18/+13 for 2d6+17 and Range is +15/+10/+5 for 1d8+4.  That pumps his melee dpr up to 45.6, and drops his ranged dpr to 5.95.  Congrats - now he's considerably more effective in melee (he can get rid of that dragon in 4 rounds for sure, instead of 6 - assuming it lands.  If it stays at range (and still assuming an investment in a bow that takes advantage of 18 STR), it will take 26 rounds (!) instead of 9 - hope he didn't pawn the cloak of resistance and the amulet of health to get that +6 STR belt.  He's also a much more negligible threat, so a smart Dragon can leave him until the more effective targets are dead.  If he didn't pawn the Boots of Speed, maybe he can at least run away...Are there errors in my logic or my math?</blockquote>

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