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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 602288" data-attributes="member: 6875">Re: Re: Re: ReActually, 32 points to buy with is NOT all that high.  Yes, if your group is filled with unrepentant munchkins, they will buy highly two-dimensional attribute spreads (and likely not buy much, if ANY, charisma other than for paladins, sorcerors, and some clerics ... a DEAD giveaway, that ...).Here, look:25-point buy:18 (cost 16, spent so far 16)10 (cost 2, spent so far 18)10 (cost 2, spent so far 20)10 (cost 2, spent so far 22)10 (cost 2, spent so far 24)9 (cost 1, spent so far 25)... I don't see a single "8" in there.  Granted the charater is fairly one-dimensional in terms of attributes, but that's not needfully a BAD thing.32-point buy:18 (cost 16, spent so far 16)14 (cost 6, spent so far 22)12 (cost 2, spent so far 26)10 (cost 2, spent so far 28)10 (cost 2, spent so far 30)10 (cost 2, spent so far 32)Still no 8's ... mainly because only the one 18 was bought.  For a spellcaster ... 18 in primary, 14 in Dexterity, and 12 in, oh ... Constitution perhaps.  Well, a Cleric might want 12 Dex and 14 Charisma, due to Turning issues.Then again, their "average power level" 25-point buy actually SHORTS you a lot.  4d6-drop-the-lowest means for a higher average than that method gives you.There are 6^4 (or 1296) permutations of possible results.  I don't have the right sort of calculator, nor maths, to calculate how many ways there are to roll EVERY single possible result.  But for an example, there is precisely ONE die result that will give you a 3 (1, 1, 1, and 1).  There are twenty one ways to roll an 18 (please, just trust me on this ... I don't want to clutter this thread up listing them ALL).Obviously the bell curve is shifted well to the higher end.  I once calculated this out fairly well, and determined (for example) that more than two thirds of all PC's generated using 4d6-and-drop will have at lest one score of 16 or higher.Contrast that to the "my highest is a 15" for the "standard set" that accompanies the 25-point-buy method.  IIRC, I pegged the bell curve peaking between 13.4 and 13.9.  The "standard spread" in NO way gives an average of roughly 13.5 to 14, not even close.  Nor can a 25-point buy do so; spread evenly, 25 points buys just over a 12 average (with a single point left over) ... barely more than the THREE-dice methods of old used to generate.Whereas a 32-point buy will produce six 13's, with 2 points left over ... which is more in keeping with what the standard method should produce.  Now consider that the point-buy system ALREADY makes higher attributes slightly less attractive, by increasing the per-point purchase rate (it costs 16 points to get an 18, and only 6 points to get a 14).All in all, I consider the point-buy limits listed in the DMG to be one step below what they are billed as.  Therefor, I pesonally use 25 for low-power gaming, 35 for medium-power, and 45 for high-power.</blockquote>

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