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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 619720" data-attributes="member: 6875">Even BESM has rules.  Try true freeform-RP.And for rules, D&D is -not- a heavyweight; I'd callit a middleweight at best.  Try RoleMaster, SpaceMaster, GURPS, Champions, or Aftermath! (the last being, sadly, long OOP).  That depends on your aim.  You obviously care only for absolute maximum efficiency and "effectiveness" in your chosen specialty (nonspontaneous arcane spells).By your rules, my non-melee cleric should take base 8's in strength, dexterity, constitution, and intelligence, an 18 in Wisdom, and as much charisma as I can afford.To me, that's a slightly weak, clumsy, sickly, "dumb-ish" character.  Not remarkably so on any front, but it's there nonetheless.  And, what does taking all those 8's to get an 18 wisdom get me, that a 16 wisdom wouldn't?  +1 save DC.  +1 to an already-strong Will Save.  Eventully, one bonus spell per day that the cleric wouldn't have gotten.Big deal.Yes, that's right, big fat hairy deal ... it's not THAT important.  Going form 16 (cost 10) to 18 (cost 16) is the difference between three 10's, or three 8's.Now, what do I gain by NO nerfing all those scores ... ?  Well, let's see; +1 initiative, armor class, reflex save, and ranged to-hit bonus; +1 hit point per level and +1 fortitude save; +1 skill point per level (+4 at 1st level).Give up all that for ONE bonus spell?  For only plus ONE to save DCs?  Please!  3E did one thing: it made it so a spellcaster can have as low as a FOURTEEN in their primary attribute, and still be fully effective.Having all of two less in Wisdom, than the wizard has in Intelligence, won't be a hindrance to the fun of ROLE players.  Maybe if your entire image of an RPG is as a tactical-encounter simulation, fine.Said otherwise-ordinary cleric will have a much better time of it, strictly role-played, than your idiot-savant wizard ... for a night at the local watering hole, or a dinner-and-reception at the local noble's manor.Unless the GM was running a pure tactical-encounter simulation, I'd tell him to get stuffed if he said *I* needed to revise my character.  If he IS running such a simulation, then tough on me (though if he was, and sAID so from the get-go ... I'd've min/maxxed for that situation).Being average in strength doesn't threaten the fighter(s).  Being average in dexterity doesn't threaten the rogues.Having scores of "10" in someone else's "specialty stat" doesn't threaten them, because they likely DO have 14's, 16's, or maybe even an 18 in that attribute.Again; a cleric with (say):STR 9DEX 10CON 10INT 10WIS 16CHA 15... isn't going to threaten ANYone except other divine spellcasters.  He'd be good at turning, and good at divine spellcasting (base spell DCs of 13+level).  He'd be as smart as the average villager, as healthy, as agile / non-clumsy.  A touch weaker, perhaps, but he's more a scholarly / healer type than a field worker or such.And the all mighty difference of 1 DC and 1 bonus spell "eventually" ... isn't that much of a disadvantage compared to the guy with 9, 8, 8, 8, 18, 15 (inorder).</blockquote>

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