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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8849577" data-attributes="member: 6801228">No. The setting relies on the rules, sure, but the rules don't make the setting. I could port in rules from Savage Worlds for ship combat and that doesn't change the setting one bit.Yeah, you disagree, but you have yet to demonstrate anything except "2e had more!!!". Which doesn't mean that this is insufficient.Oh the horror, it isn't like that happens with literally every NPC ever. I mean, I'm certain that time I encountered Vecna he was 100% exactly the same as the Vecna you encountered, which is why he was disguised as a woman and flirted with the party. Well, that Vecna was a bit different, but the one who showed up in person and demanded we protect a pregnant woman or he would kill us was TOTALLY like the Vecna that you've encountered, right? 100% consistent between every table.Really? Cause all you've said is "but 2e had MOAR!" I'm not hearing much about how you could use this to run in 5e.Then every setting is incomplete, because no setting has a complete gazeteer about EVERYTHING. It is an impossible standard. And frankly, not one that I have ever heard before. No setting has everything laid out, and plenty have things like "there is a bar in this city called [blank]" and that's all they say, because that is all you needed. And it is fascinating to me that you say there is nothing to talk about except the bar, when there is an entire gang war listed out in the same section. There is also an entire company devoted to adventurers, a secret mindflayer plot, a neighborhood with consistent gunshots and marksmanship contests... yet the ONLY thing to talk about is that one of the four taverns in the book didn't tell me that the beholder bartender knows everything in all of existence? What kind of standards are these?Wow... really? "Each of the walls of Minas Tirith" cover seven different locations? Did a quick google, seems each wall is not unique and special. Also, are the walls of a city really a different location than the city itself? Is the gate in the walls a different location than the walls? You do this a few times actually, You also included the "seven warning beacons" because I guess those are somehow super detailed locations and very different from each other? And how is it that you can include the city of Peligar, then the Palace in Peligar. That'd be like the writer of the Rock of Bral information saying that they had two locations, Elmandar's Star Charts, the business, and Elmandar's Bathroom inside of Elmandar's Star charts. And looking closer yet again, you do the same thing. #36 is "the White Mountains" then you include three mountains that are part of the White Mountains. The Court of the Fountain is also in Minas Tirith. And the Tower.Good Lord, I'm just going to have to redo this list, because it is impossible to actually talk about every single thing you are doing to pad these numbers. 1) Pelargir - Includes: The Palace of Pelargir, 2) Ithilien3) Minas TirithOh my god, are you kidding me right now? I looked up "The Tower of the Sun" and it is the SAME PLACE as Minas Tirith. You literally frickin' listed the same place TWICE to pad the numbers. Are you kidding me?!3) Minas Tirith, formerly Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun- Includes, The Court of the Fountain, Pelennor Fields (They are literally the fields outside of Minas Tirith), The Great Gate, The Seven Walls of Minas Tirith, The White Tower of Ecthelion, The citadel of Minas Tirith4) Tower of the Moon, Minas Morgul5) Osgiliath- Includes the Dome of Stars, a "great stone bridge" (it isn't even named the Great Stone Bridge, they just had a massive stone bridge in the city),6) The Argonath7) The Anduin River8) The Morgul Road (Since I am counting this, I'm going to increase my count of the locations in Spelljammer from 33 to closer to 52, since they have roads listed on their map too)9) Pinnath Gelin10) Anfalas11) Dol Amroth- Includes the Fortress in Dol Amroth12) Belfalas13) Erech14) Calembel15) Lebennin16) LinhirTolfalas isn't in Gondor. It is in a Bay past the borders of Gondor. It isn't claimed by them, it is a barren rock. It also seems to have been added in a 1971 guide based on Tolkien's notes. This one is too far of a stretch, and I've been including the cities and fiefs detailed in the video games and RPG sourcebooks, just because they showed up in the old map.17) Ethring (Its a bridge, but at least it is a named bridge I guess) 18) Lamedon- Includes the Ringlo Vale (Lamedon is a region, Ringlo Vale is a valley in this region)19) The White Mountains - Includes Mindolluin, Iron Saw Peak, Starkhorn Peak, The Paths of the Dead,20) Amyn Arnen actually Emyn Arnen, good thing I double checked the spellingThe Hills of Agar are only referenced in Christopher Tolkien's series about the people of Middle Earth, published by references unpublished notes. Do we really need to include unpublished material to show how complete the published Middle Earth is?21) Henneth Annun- Includes The Forbidden Pool (For those who don't google, Henneth Annun is a cave hidden by a waterfall, The Forbidden Pool is the pool of water at the base of the Waterfall. Only notable because Gollum was seen in it once... such high quality detail)The Mountains of Shadow are Mordor's Mountains. You want to count parts of Mordor as Gondor?22) Edhellond23) Bay of Belfalas (This is the Bay that Tolfalas is in, I'll count the bay since it at least touches Gondor's shores.) - Includes: The Fortress of Belfalas, and is fed by the Anduin Delta24) Blackroot Vale25 ) AnorienI'm not counting the Warning Beacons. Even if I did, it would be one count. 26) Isengard27) The Firien Wood28) The Druadan Forest 29) Cair AndrosSo yeah, after cutting out the nonsense like counting walls for seven different locations, then the gate for an eighth, then the city they surround for a tenth, then the palace in that city for the 11th, then the court in that palace for the 12th... turns out I can agree to about 29 locations, 30 if I give you the Warning Beacons. Many of which are just large stretches of land, with little to no detail about them. And in fact, the VAST majority of these locations are given a single line IF THAT in the books. This is what you want to boast about for a "good setting"? A list you had to cheat on, and stretch, that has little to nothing to do with the source material of the setting? And so many of these are literally just names with no purpose. I can't believe I allowed myself to end up two hours late to bed for this level of sophistry and flat out deceit.</blockquote>

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